Pioneer chainsaws

[leeha]

Well guys, i finally got my P41W decals and applied them today. Along with that, I did the bar stencil as well. The decals and stencils were meticulously recreated by Joe at Sugar Creek Supply. What he does there is simply magic! He will have decal sets available for anyone doing a large P-series saw as I've sent him a few pictures for the other models. He can also recreate any decal with a simple photograph of one. The bar stencil is available now.

I am nothing short of ecstatic with this project and Joe has really helped make it complete. I know the full wrap handle is still missing, but that will come in time. Here are some pics:

Brendon, You did an absolute flawless job.
Excellent work to detail.

Congrats

Lee

 

[DroppedP51]

Yes, You should check on the bottom of the saw for the ID plate. It can sometimes be hard to see. Looks like it was a "Western" version as it has the full wrap bars and the muffler with the exhaust facing backward. The air filter is the other thing that makes a Western. It's not the screen type but rather a larger one that seals all the way around the airbox.

The other guys are correct, it is at least a P51. It's a lot of saw. I'm thinking its a P51 or P61 Western. Great saw either way, congratulations!

Hi im new at this but what are the options that these P saws came with I have a P51 and a P41s What does s stand for? Whats a western? some saws had high performance on them? or is it all the same saw

 

[Arrowhead]

P50 pictures

This is one of P50's I inherited. Its not to pretty right now, as you can see, but it does have 145-150 lbs compression. I have it all broke down, I'm getting ready to blast it. I wish I had more time to work on it. It will be a slow but enjoyable process. If it turns out half as good as Brendons P41, I will be happy.

 

[DroppedP51]

re P50

I see that it has the low air cleaner cover That is different to my P51

 

[Arrowhead]

DroppedP51

I love those P51's. From what I'm told the only main differences from the p50 to the p51 is the coil and carb/air filter. I like the looks of the taller air filter on the p51. I would love to find a P60-P61 with a chain brake. Three weeks ago I couldn't even tell you what color a pioneer was!!! Now, Pioneers are on my mind all the time!! "Got to love those chainsaw addictions" , I only wish my wife felt the same!!

 

[propliner]

jvd1, my guess is that your saw in the photo is a P51 Western. It has the western spikes, handle and muffler. The lack of manual oiler button says P50 series. A cylinder measurement is in order to differentiate between P51 or P60 series. The green paint says early P51 or P50. If the kill switch is in the top handle and not in the cylinder shroud, then that is a P51 or later feature. It looks as though a few parts have been changed and it would be hard to tell for certain what it was originally.

 

[Arrowhead]

jvd1, my guess is that your saw in the photo is a P51 Western. It has the western spikes, handle and muffler. The lack of manual oiler button says P50 series. A cylinder measurement is in order to differentiate between P51 or P60 series. The green paint says early P51 or P50. If the kill switch is in the top handle and not in the cylinder shroud, then that is a P51 or later feature. It looks as though a few parts have been changed and it would be hard to tell for certain what it was originally.

This is what I was talking about! The knowledge of Propliner and others, is AMAZING!!!

 

[propliner]

jvd1, I just noticed that the top handle is a replacement. Can you take the blower cover off and take a pic of the coil? I'm now leaning towards late P51 or P52. Also, if you can check the oil pump for plugged off manual oiler lines, that would help. Cylinder bore would sure narrow it down, too.

 

[propliner]

Yes, Rob, that P41 has safety chain on it. I was hoping noone would notice It was all I had in that size, and I promise to change it to something more appropriate (Pioneer original full chisel, of course).
Someone asked what I was doing next... it's a P52 Western resto to go alongside my P62 and P41 Westerns. I have most of the parts gathered up now. Let the stripping begin!

 

[Arrowhead]

propliner

Brendon, Let me know when you recieve the handguard. I think you should have it by Wendsday. ED

 

[DroppedP51]

do you have some photos of your P62?

 

[DroppedP51]

do you have some photos of your P62?

Propliner?

 

[propliner]

I'll get some pics up soon (I'm out of town again). My P62W was my first big saw purchase. I bought it from a guy who used it for one summer in 1984 and then put it away. He said it cut circles around his friends' Huskys at the time. I haven't seen one like it since I bought it... they're as rare as the P52W.
Brendon.

 

[RobShelton]

Chain

I just wanted to give you a hard time - in good fun! I knew you wouldn't leave that chain on it! I admire your work, Brendon and hope one day to have a saw or two that would rival the quality of yours. I recently saw some "Original" Pioneer chain on ebay so you might want to take a look.

Yes, Rob, that P41 has safety chain on it. I was hoping noone would notice It was all I had in that size, and I promise to change it to something more appropriate (Pioneer original full chisel, of course).
Someone asked what I was doing next... it's a P52 Western resto to go alongside my P62 and P41 Westerns. I have most of the parts gathered up now. Let the stripping begin!

 

[propliner]

Hi Rob, I looked at that chain but it was the wrong kind... and don't worry, I can handle the ribbing. :blush:

Ed, your parts are on the way.

Dropped P51, here are some photos of my P62W. It's all original except for the bar which I changed to an original 32" Pioneer .404. I've used this saw a bit myself. One time it backfired on me while starting and the handle almost tore my two fingers off. They still hurt at times... three years later. Needless to say, it makes me flinch.

I've also attached some pics of my P61. The clutch cover was made to CSA standards for sale in Canada to cover the muffler. I bought from a french guy in Ontario and I remember his ad saying, "This is a MAN's saw, not a girly saw", LOL. It has a new Pioneer 28" .404 bar on it. It runs like new.

P62

P61

If you'd like to see more pics, let me know.
Brendon.

 

[DroppedP51]

wow

Thanks for that they look amazing, Is it true that a P 60 61 62 piston and barrel will fit on a P50s size saw? I dnt think P60 size saws are common in nz Guy ive spoken to have only ever seen dead ones and never a complete one And i dont know if its worth importing one from usa lol

 

[propliner]

Is it true that a P 60 61 62 piston and barrel will fit on a P50s size saw?

Yes, the piston and cylinder from a Pioneer P60 series will fit the P50 series and vice-versa. However, a Pioneer/Partner P62 and P65 as well as Poulan Pro 655 cylinder will not fit the older Pioneer saws. The crankcases manufactured after the merger were cut away for a new cylinder design that had a shoulder at the bottom. As a general rule for 98cc saws, cylinders from an orange saw will not fit a yellow saw, but a cylinder from a yellow saw will fit an orange saw. I'm not sure that I could confuse you any further, so I'll stop now.

 

[WesternSaw]

Pioneer Piston Problem!

Hello Trusted Gurus
Aggghhhh! Okay maybe I'm jumping the gun here, and being a little negative, but that low hours P41 Western that I acquired recently,maybe has a few more hours than low hours.Come to think of it exactly how many hours is low hours anyway,I mean beside the obvious?I had a chainsaw and ran it 3 hours,I'm exaggerating here but I think you get my point.Okay back to my point on the P41W it seems to have had quite a bit of carbon in the exhaust port,which I removed gently and avoided any carbon going down the cylinder.There is some carbon on the side of the piston and on top of the piston.The carbon on the piston side is more just the black carbon colour.Top of the piston has some flakes of carbon for lack of better wording.Can I try and remove that carbon from the top of the piston,say with a homemade wooden little scraper,while at the same time sucking it with a vacuum? I will try and take some pictures tonight or tomorrow so you will have a better idea of just what i have got here.Maybe I should post a pick of the spark plug end as well.Man,hope I didn't't get burned here so to speak.
Thanks
Lawrence

 

[propliner]

Lawrence, I tend to judge a saw's usage by the overall looks first. The more nicks and scrapes, fading and flaking of paint, missing decals, etc. The more a saw has usually been used. Granted, it may have rolled around in the back of a truck for years but this is what I've found in most instances.
Secondly, I look to see if it has an original bar. Low time to me means that it should have the original bar. Maybe a worn out chain, but the original bar it was born with.
We can't really see inside an engine when we buy something but a compression check is always a good pre-buy bonus. Unless, of course, you have a new piston and cylinder for it and you don't really care if he's run it on straight gas.

Your carbon buildup is likely from one of those guys who likes to run it with extra oil, because his theory is that if a little is good, then a lot is better. I'd bet that half of early piston and cylinder failures in two-strokes is caused by carbon scraping caused by too much oil in the mix. Hopefully yours is OK. The best thing to do would be to remove the jug and clean the parts up like that. That way you'll get a much better look and you'll be able to clean up the ring grooves as well. I'll send a gasket your way if you need one.

Speaking of buying saws, I have another low time Poulan Pro 655 on the way. I bought it for a good price. I'll see what it's like, fix any snags and then maybe use it for a camp saw or pass it to one of you fine gentlemen if you have use for it.
Brendon.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hello Trusted Gurus
Aggghhhh! Okay maybe I'm jumping the gun here, and being a little negative, but that low hours P41 Western that I acquired recently,maybe has a few more hours than low hours.Come to think of it exactly how many hours is low hours anyway,I mean beside the obvious?I had a chainsaw and ran it 3 hours,I'm exaggerating here but I think you get my point.Okay back to my point on the P41W it seems to have had quite a bit of carbon in the exhaust port,which I removed gently and avoided any carbon going down the cylinder.There is some carbon on the side of the piston and on top of the piston.The carbon on the piston side is more just the black carbon colour.Top of the piston has some flakes of carbon for lack of better wording.Can I try and remove that carbon from the top of the piston,say with a homemade wooden little scraper,while at the same time sucking it with a vacuum? I will try and take some pictures tonight or tomorrow so you will have a better idea of just what i have got here.Maybe I should post a pick of the spark plug end as well.Man,hope I didn't't get burned here so to speak.
Thanks
Lawrence

You could do the carbon removal that way but I would strip it down, remove the cylinder and clean both the cylinder and piston properly, the rings may be stuck in their grooves and can be cleaned much better if disassembled. The rings may be a bit brittle by this time so only remove them if you are comfortable at removing vintage rings, it is the only way to determine if the rings are worn any amount. To check for wear they must be inserted into the cylinder and squared with the piston, then measure ring end gap. The amount of wear on the rings are a good indicator of how many hours of use are on the saw.
Pioneerguy600