The Oregon File Guide modded for square filing

[Vincent]

Good Work

Hi
brilliant idea
How are the results when you file the "round filemode" i.e.
inside out? Is the hard chrome on the cuttingedge line much "crackt"?
I check it out with the tabelfixed FG 2.

Cheers Vincent

 

[24d]

I like the looks of that. In my crystal ball I can see a lot more square filers in the future.
Suddenly my limited ability to free hand square file does not seem so special any more. That looks like it will make a very conisistant and smooth chain.

I feel the same way, just this year we have helped A-top develop a fantastic guide that anyone can toss into their tool box or service truck and give to any employee ect and get a nice sq filed chain. Now with this fairly simple modification to this 60 yr old design of a file guide, anybody (with a little practice) can hand file a chain to any angle with near perfect results.

24D, would you care to share your drawings? I wouldn't mind making a setup for myself.

YES, I'D BE GLAD TO!! Only problem is I'm headed out of town for a week or two so it may be a while before I can get them and have them up here. However, I really don't think you will need them as it is so simple to do, just look at this picture the top two holes have to be the same as the ones on your factory guide (there are 1000s of guides like this out there, some are slightly diff) then you want the center of the file to be close to where the center of the round file would be on the factory guide, there is a full inch of adjustment here so it's not that critical (see how much shorter mine is, still works fine) the most important thing is The top of the file AND the side of the file must line up perfectly with the round bar on the guide, if not, the angles will change as you move the file from one end to the other, it's not a big deal to get it right, just something to be aware of. I took that factory peice (the black one in the center) and a goofy file (it was the widest thickest file I had, if it works they all will) went to my local machine shop and was sq filing chains with it in less than 24 hrs. It's really simple.


One of the members here contacted me with what seems like a great plan to have these made, packaged and sold, compleat with instructions. He now has my guide and the conversion kit for testing and to see if it can be made cheaply so everyone can have one. By the end of '08 we should all be sq filing!!

Later,

 

[ents]

I think you'll have more people lining up for this than you think (sorta like the shim kits for the grinder). Count me in for one.

 

[Urbicide]

I think you'll have more people lining up for this than you think (sorta like the shim kits for the grinder). Count me in for one.

I was thinking the same thing. Rob & RBW are always getting requests....

Can you get a patent? Not that it would discourage the ChiCom's from stealing it anyway.

 

[24d]

I was thinking the same thing. Rob & RBW are always getting requests....

If I really wanted one done right, I'd talk to Rob (stihl 041s). I feel like he is in a class above the average machinist, I have an old all metal Nygyan like this Oregon and he is in fact modding it for me right now I just did this one to see if we could get one for everybody and I think we can.

Can you get a patent? Not that it would discourage the ChiCom's from stealing it anyway.

I didn't invent this, I just made one, I'v seen one that was done 50 yrs ago by Martin Hedrick a World Hotsaw Champion in the 60's very much like this one, I don't know if he was the first or not, I'v seen others also. Rather than figure out how to make a buck or two I'd rather everyone have one and get to filing.

I do have some pictures of other guides modded this way but they all came from Dennis Cahoon, I can't bring myself to ask him if I can post them.

Later,

 

[2000ssm6]

Awesome work Larry! I'm going to do another gtg in the fall and hope you can make that one. We could make a few cuts, then use your guide to see how it did. I will get one either way though........give me a holla if you think I could help with any thing.

 

[24d]

I'll be there if I can, I'll send a guide if I can't. I will warn you though, this guide won't be near as simple to use as the A-top we just did some tests on the A-top sq filing guide by the way and it makes a VERY fast work chain that anybody can duplicate.

 

[BobL]

Inspired by Larry (24d), here is my almost fully hand made attempt at a square file guide mod.






I simplified the shaped of the verticals compared to the standard oregon design so that they are basically a straight vertical with a hoop at one end. I used 1/2" ally plate cut out roughly using a bandsaw then sander to final shape using an upturned belt sander. The large (3/4") hoop hole in each of the verticals was drilled using a 3/4" Forstner ww bit - they are so much fun to use on Ally.

The file clamping collars were turned up using the metal work lathe at work from 7/8" ally rod. As well as the square file, as per Larry's idea, these collars also have a hole drilled through them to accept a standard round file. The hardest part was cutting the slot in the collars for the square ground sharpening file to pass thru. I did this by drilling out as much as I could and then by hand using a combination of fine square and round needle files. This took 90% of the 2 hours or so it took to make the whole unit. I like making or modding tools so 2 hours in the shed is just cheap therapy for me after dealing with my day job.

I also used two grub screws instead of a single screw on each vertical to lock the crosswise square and round rods in place to suit the file length. It's dead easy cutting threads in ally using a battery powered drill, thread tap and cutting lube, so cutting an extra thread is no big deal . I think it looks pretty tidy and it works really well. I did use grub screws on all of the other screws but the hex head bolts makes it easier to adjust the file angles etc without needing to find the hex key.

Thanks again for the idea Larry.

 

[blsnelling]

I'd love to have something like this.

 

[dustytools]

I'd love to have something like this.

+1. Count me in for one once they are available.

 

[Tzed250]

Larry, when is the Atop unit going to be for sale?

 

[Andyshine77]

+1. Count me in for one once they are available.

+3 I'd love to have one.

 

[24d]

Larry, when is the Atop unit going to be for sale?

Call Amic's ask for Tony I call in the morning and he answeres anyway most of the time and he can fill you in, soon though I'm sure. I did hear from Goran today and things are moving right along. Well here is the Email as sent to Kevin and I.


Hello Kevin,

Thank you for your information about your testing.I think both you and me plus your friends in the US have a passion for this that goes beyound "normal people"
I have my background in the swedish chain saw industry (Husky) and found 15 years ago that something new need to come in terms of cutting faster r by a chain saw. At that time we spend a lot in R&D to improve the chain saws where the limitation was the chain.
As time has gone has the fuel reduction argument for using sqyare ground sharpening become even stronger. I have a test logger over here who are saveing about 400 liters. gallons? 144 gallons? in a year. So your 60% price increease of fuel in one year will soon affect the loggers economy. I fwe have the counter tool to help loggers do we hit the market at the right time.


I heard about squareground sharpening in the US and learned if from the Oregon people, at that time Dudely Hollis was around and we become friends. The Atop goofy filing was just an attempt to come up with something new. Seems not to be working so good even though it cut quite OK. We have understood that the target group is the US market with the "real square ground sharpening"

We aim to have 500 units made in this year and you will the first to get them for free as thanks for all the testing you ahve made. We plan to make an animation as instruction beside the paper operators manual. I want to buy the video clip from your testing?

We also plan to att he back side of the operators manual to have a "word list" explaining for example, gauge, working corner, gullet area, etc, etc. I"m probably comming back to you and Larry for setting a US touch on the word list.

Thank you at the moment and we have by you and Larry got the encuragement to go on with this. Hope to seeing you one day in the US,

Sincerely
Göran Carlström


I should add we refused any compensation for our involment or vids. This is all in fun right?

Inspired by Larry (24d), here is my almost fully hand made attempt at a square file guide mod.

front
back
detail

Thanks again for the idea Larry.

Great job Bob!! Let me know how it works for you! Are any of the rest of you making one of these conversions, can I help?

Being able to file your chains and make all your saws from here on out a solid 15% faster, with no down side, thats a big deal and something all of us (well the ones that don't know already) should be trying to do. Weather you need a guide, learn to do it freehand, what ever 15% free speed, 15% less fuel, 15% easier on your saw, 15% less work, for every saw you own or will ever own, we all need to master this one way or another.


Later,

 

[Tzed250]

Larry, your work is much appreciated!!!

 

[24d]

Larry, your work is much appreciated!!!

WORK??? HAHAHA!! So is your touch of comedy haha! Thanks though, really is all in fun.

Later,

 

[ray benson]

The Oregon Engineer has been on the site but no replies to this thread.

 

[24d]

The Oregon Engineer has been on the site but no replies to this thread.

We have PMed about it, he has seen this thread, if he has a comment, I'm sure he will share it with us.
_________________________________________________________________

The Oregon guide is a copy of the Nygran guide, it did use a round or sq file it just didn't allow the sq file to rotate, that in itself is not really nessasary, I think it is better and for sure offers more angles and for me it was easier to make a conversion that rotated as opposed to one that didn't.
I do have some friends that use the original guide (with the file on a fixed angle) and are very satisfied with the results.
Good question is, there are alot of companys coping the Nygran (now Grangerg), Why did they all lose the double bevel file feature, even Granberg?

How it held the double bevel file

Nygran modded to rotate the sq file 40yrs ago -

These 3 pictures were taken from some of Dennis Cahoon's old threads.

Later,

 

[24d]

Bump. Well I can't get anyone to mass produce them. Anyone else done the conversion?

 

[Metals406]

Bump. Well I can't get anyone to mass produce them. Anyone else done the conversion?

I have been thinking a lot lately, about checking into making these conversions. I have access to a milling machine, lathe, and a waterjet. The waterjet machine would be the most expensive portion of production. I believe the machine is $130 an hour? (pretty fair for a machine that cost $250,000.)

Although, I believe many parts could be cut in that hour... I'll look into it sometime this week.

I'm worried they would have to be sold for $25-$35 (shipped) a piece in a semi-production setting. The only way to keep cost lower, is to mass produce the product. In example--a run of 50 pieces, costs far more than a run of 5,000 pieces.

 

[Tzed250]

I have been thinking a lot lately, about checking into making these conversions. I have access to a milling machine, lathe, and a waterjet. The waterjet machine would be the most expensive portion of production. I believe the machine is $130 an hour? (pretty fair for a machine that cost $250,000.)

Although, I believe many parts could be cut in that hour... I'll look into it sometime this week.

I'm worried they would have to be sold for $25-$35 (shipped) a piece in a semi-production setting. The only way to keep cost lower, is to mass produce the product. In example--a run of 50 pieces, costs far more than a run of 5,000 pieces.

I have access to a waterjet at about $55/hr.