F-450 - should I get Diesel or Gas???

[gorman]

i got a diesel and it's been good to me until now. at 60K miles i had to have the engine pulled out to replace the oil pan which so far has kept me out of work for 2 weeks because i took it to the WRONG place. Hold on to the good mechanics you meet and send the rest to Jiffy Lube.

[rattler555]

Originally Posted by Cowboy Billy

The Ford 7.3 diesel is not a ford engine. It is a international diesel engine. With or without a load my F-250 gets 15 mpg. The exception to this is if I am running the rpm faster than 1800 rpm which with my axles comes out to 67 mph. I have hooked up to and pulled a 17,000lb trailer load combo with no problem. After that I put a DP tunner and single shot injectors in it and it gave me a lot more torque. The full set of injectors was $1350 and the programable chip was about $400.

One thing you will want to check on the engine. While it is running take the oil fill cap off of the valve cover and see how much blow by is coming out of it. I did not know to check it when I got mine and I had a broken ring from someone using either on it I think. There was so much blow by I would not have been able to pour oil in it as it would blow it back out. Another note it takes almost five gallons of oil to change it but 8 to 10K oil changes are normal on it.

Billy

Thanks for the advice. I will def check for blow by. Also, I found some info online to listen to the engine during a cold start and check for knocks, erratic idling and look for dark black smoke or white smoke indicating glow plug problems. Some dark black smoke is ok during start up but should subside after idling down. Dark black smoke indicates cylinder/compression issues.

[lego1970]

White smoke is generally unburnt fuel. The thumping, knocking and crackling sound you hear when a diesel starts up cold is from not all the cylinders firing or not firing at equal pressure. So it kinda thumps like a Harley until the cylinder temps come up and all fuel is burning properly and equally across the cylinders. Because of the oily fuel you will always have some black smoke but a lot of black smoke at start up can be from worn rings. The majority of the smoke should go away after it warms up and the rings start to seat better. If any of the smoke continues at high levels after it's warmed up, it could be numerous things, worn rings, bad head gasket, leaking injectors, bad seal on the turbocharger, leaking cold air charger or intake manifold, and numerous other things. Also check the oil pressure. Make sure it's not to lazy coming up to pressure and that it's not too low. That could be something as simple as low oil, but could be worn oil pump or worse worn main and rod bearings. I can't think anything else of the top of my head. Good luck.

[fishercat]

must be from years of working on them.the are great flower pots though.

in all fairness,my buddy has a 2004 F-550 with a V-10 and has had no problems.i cannot say that for my buddies with their diesels.

[TreeClimber57]

Originally Posted by Koa Man

You can buy a Dodge Ram 4500 or 5500, equal to the F450 and F550 as far as GVW is concerned and it already comes with a Cummins. I have owned Dodge with the Cummins and was very happy with both. I currently still have my 2001 Ram 2500 with the Cummins and 134,000 miles. Still running strong. I did have to change the injection pump at 110,000 miles, but I did the job myself over one weekend.

You can get either a CAT or Cummins in the Fords if you go F650 or bigger.
I have seen some Ford F450s and F550s I would have liked to buy, but it had the 6.0 PSD which was a deal killer. I also don't like automatic trannys unless it is an Allison.

Personally the ONLY diesel engines I would buy are Detroit, CAT or Cummins. Which is why I use only Dodge for the trucks. I have yet to have a problem with the Cummins engine. Now the transmission is another story.. and if you do buy a Dodge get a manual transmission (IMHO). Together the two will outlast about 3 bodies on the vehicle.

[gilraine]

Originally Posted by pdqdl

'97? I would reconsider. There are some drawbacks to the ford diesels. Unless they have changed their engines, the diesels run great, reliable for a while, then...you will regret owning one!

The engines have a special computer driven fuel injection system that costs about $1500 PER CYLINDER for parts alone, and that does not include the highly technical labor required to fix it. Once these engines get about 10 years old, the cost of an engine repair makes it not worth owning anymore. The ford diesel WILL NOT OUTLAST a gas engine, not because there is anything mechanically wrong, just that what must wear out is more expensive than a new engine, which is more than the used truck will be worth.

They don't have a conventional fuel injection pump, and No! You can't work on it yourself. At all. Except maybe to change fuel filters. And Yes! The dealer knows these things and will break it off on you when the truck finally needs a repair.

If you plan on buying new, and owning it for only 5 or 6 years and then dumping it on some unsuspecting fool, the diesels are fine. Otherwise, buy the gas, own something you can own for 15 years. Furthermore, as more people get burned by this engine, it will become well known that you should not buy a used Ford Diesel, so I suspect that the resale value will be low.

I know I have no intention of owning another one. Mine is a 1995, and it cost me over 4 grand to get one cylinder fixed last year. The gas engines work just fine for me, and I used to prefer the diesels, back when they had injection pumps on them.

sorry you had bad luck with yours, the 30 or so we had at work were great. we replaced them with isuzu NQRs and the fords were better trucks..we ran several of those box trucks to 600K on the original engine.. a gas engine has no place in a 1.25 ton truck IMO.. the 7.3 is one of the best diesels ever put in a light duty truck, ranked only behind the 12 valve Cummins IMO...

[John D]

Your looking at a 97 truck...so a V10 is out...it would be a 460 in a truck that old,.and forget it! I say take a chance with the 7.3 PSD,its a good motor if it was maintained.Oil changes are very important on the 7.3 as the injector life is directly tied to the oil condition.A 460 in an F450.would get 3-6 mpg in a good day and not enough power,as the old 460 wasnt exactly a powerhouse.

[BlackenedTimber]

I'm guessing you dont have to worry about cold weather out there in Maui? Then definately no contest between gas and diesel...

gotta go, my GF is feeding me vodka again...

T

[lostcoastland]

get a six speed diesel cummins...7.3's have thin cylender walls..a "improvement" over the 6.9 "my beloved smokey steed"..A straight six is simply a better design..Have you HEARD those cummings engines??!~!

[JTinaTree]

Too many hear says on hear about Ford Diesels and not enough people that know what there talking about..
Im more than a Qualified Mechanic to work on Ford Diesels.. Ive got a 04F250 6.0 with almost 150k and still running strong.. Also know several people with high milage 6o's . The main reason for problems is the emission Bull sh@% That ford was mandated to put on all 03 and newer Diesel engines.. Take the converter off, Block off the Egr Cooler and let it Rock.. The 7.3 are good if you dont mind oil in your driveway.. The external oil lines will always seep oil.. and a stock 6.0 will get better mpg and out pull it with 27-30psi spooling up in the turbo All though I will never buy a 7.3 or newer stopped up Emissionized 6.4.. All diesel engines have there little quearks about them..
Get the torquey v10 if you dont wont to join the Diesel Club.. But once you spool up a Powerstroke with 12k behind you and still have plenty of pedal left, you wont settle for a gaser..

[rattler555]

I just picked up the truck. Engine sounded really good for it's age. The exhaust looked good - it was practically clear after the initial startup. Tranny shift smooth. The hoist operated fine. Brakes worked. There is a manifold leak and an oil pan gasket leak which shouldn't be too big of a deal to fix; i think you need to lift the engine to replace the oil pan gasket. The truck ran great for the ride home which was almost 80 miles until the copper pulled me over for the a rear tail light out 10 miles from home. He was a real a-hole. He tried to cite me for driving an uninsured vehicle, driving a unregistered vehicle, and to top it off using fraudulent tags. The guy I bought it off of said I can leave them on for the ride home and send them back to him. I thought that my regular auto policy would cover new vehicles for a grace period, turns out it does but not for this truck since it would be covered under a commercial policy. While the cops was writing out the tickets I called my insurance and got the truck covered went to the cop who reluctant as he was dropped the uninsured violation after talking to my agent. He still gave me the two other tickets which are about $500 a piece. I talked the guys who sold it to me, he said we can just say that we were going to do the actual transfer tomorrow and get it notarized and that he allowed me to drive the truck under his insurance and registration. I'll see what happens at court. One good thing is I got the truck for only 4k.

[lego1970]

Sorry to hear about the tickets. What an a-hole. Glad the truck worked out good for you.

[Biker Dude]

Originally Posted by JTinaTree

Too much hearsay about Ford Diesels and not enough people that know what they're talking about..

I was thinking the same thing. The only real issue that the 7.3 had was it needed the cam sensor replaced every 125,000 miles or so and after 200,000 the valve cover gaskets and under cover wiring harnesses needed replacing. My F250 4X4 has a 7.3 with 377,000 miles on it and it still purrs like a kitten and pulls a load well. I'm sure your new truck will provide years of service and you won't be disappointed.

[TreeClimber57]

Originally Posted by lostcoastland

Have you HEARD those cummings engines??!~!

Yep.. Starting one up in five minutes.

[Greenstar]

Originally Posted by rattler555

Hello Group. I am looking at purchasing a F-450 1-ton dump for a start-up business. I found a few online and would like any opinions on gas versus Diesel. The truck I like is a 97 F-450 7.3 turbo diesel with 92k on it with a 12ft bed. I am not too familiar with Diesel engines and am concerned about high repair costs. From what i have read - diesel engines run longer and are built stronger than gas. Is there anything to look for when assessing the truck? Also, Diesel get better gas mileage that gas correct? Thanks!

They do not really get better gas mileage. They both get about the same, depending on what working order they are tuned too of course.

My last two Fords have both been DIESELS. A 95 7.3L and now I have a 2005 6.0L.
I think they are way too loud, and it is really starting to get to me. I remember this was my biggest complaint with it when test driving before I bought this new truck and now I just cant stand it. Its to the point where it gives you headaches! I'm not joking. Everyone also always hears you coming and going, and you wake up the entire neighborhood by just driving down the street.
I will definitely buy a gas Ford next time as long as they still have the Powerstrokes. If they ever quiet them down I may reconsider, but its a no brainer for me right now. I would trade this for a gas in a minute.
Also, finding diesel fuel when you are low in an unfamiliar area can be a pain in the ass sometimes too!
Good luck.

PS. btw, my 6.0L runs great too, just WAY TOO LOUD, and its a deal breaker. Its SO ANNOYING!