Honing a Shihl Cylinder. What's the proper grit?

etbrown4 · Dec 22, 2011

I've read several articles on cylinder honing, and recommended final grits of 240-400.

I don't want to enlarge the bore, but just scuff the cylinder wall to receive a new ring set.

What's the best to use?

Fish · Dec 22, 2011

Don't.....

rms61moparman · Dec 22, 2011

If you are intent on ruining it what difference does it make???
Leave the hone to the car engine builders.

Mike

Brian VT · Dec 22, 2011

If it's glazed, then you might use a Scotch-Brite pad to get that off. Nothing more abrasive than that...unless it's an old, un-plated cylinder. Then you might run a ball hone through it quick.

jus2fat · Dec 22, 2011

" This isn't your Father's Oldsmobile"..!!
:cheers:

J2F

etbrown4 · Dec 22, 2011

I see that some folks don't recommend honing, prior to re-ringing.

I know many posters have a great deal of chainsaw experience, and I'd like to hear of bad experiences that they might have had with honing themselves, and problems caused.

Obviously any homeowner, or others not knowing what they are doing can overly enlarge the bore or otherwise create a mess. So I'm interested in problems that pros or seasoned chainsaw veterans have caused by their own hands! :msp_unsure:

I'm thinking about 15-20 sec to create that cross-hatch pattern you see in a new saw cylinder.

I don't think there is much doubt that nearly every saw manufacturer hones the final few thousandths prior to final assembly, and assuming that's a fact, what the diff, as long as we only enlarge the bore maybe a quarter thousandth?

All the cylinder bore tech literature talks about a certain measured microscopic roughness, when new....that's right, microscopic roughness on a new cylinder wall to help seat new rings.

Don't kill me. I'm interested in learning something! :smile2:

one.man.band · Dec 22, 2011

you cannot achieve a 45* crosshatch on a nic cylinder with nothing less than a diamond hone. a 280 alum-oxide stone is about the only grit available for these tiny bores. it will only rough it up. the color will change. chrome is softer and thicker by a few thou, but be careful.

suggest: check your drill rpm, before buying the hone. buy right size diameter hone. they come already over-sized for bore size dia. if a diameter hone you need is not available, see if they can size one, to the size you need. larger than necessary, stuffed itself into ports is not a good idea. soak the hone overnight in clean hone oil before use. (and actually use real hone oil).

did i mention, don't do this.

only do this after practicing on many cylinders that are garbage, before attempting this on a cylinder you need.

russhd1997 · Dec 22, 2011

etbrown4 said:
I see that some folks don't recommend honing, prior to re-ringing.

I know many posters have a great deal of chainsaw experience, and I'd like to hear of bad experiences that they might have had with honing themselves, and problems caused.

Obviously any homeowner, or others not knowing what they are doing can overly enlarge the bore or otherwise create a mess. So I'm interested in problems that pros or seasoned chainsaw veterans have caused by their own hands! :msp_unsure:

I'm thinking about 15-20 sec to create that cross-hatch pattern you see in a new saw cylinder.

I don't think there is much doubt that nearly every saw manufacturer hones the final few thousandths prior to final assembly, and assuming that's a fact, what the diff, as long as we only enlarge the bore maybe a quarter thousandth?

All the cylinder bore tech literature talks about a certain measured microscopic roughness, when new....that's right, microscopic roughness on a new cylinder wall to help seat new rings.

Don't kill me. I'm interested in learning something! :smile2:

Unlike car engines chainsaw cylinders have a thin chrome or nikasil plating on the bore. Honing will damage or remove the plating.

barneyrb · Dec 22, 2011

etbrown4 said:
I see that some folks don't recommend honing, prior to re-ringing.

I know many posters have a great deal of chainsaw experience, and I'd like to hear of bad experiences that they might have had with honing themselves, and problems caused.

Obviously any homeowner, or others not knowing what they are doing can overly enlarge the bore or otherwise create a mess. So I'm interested in problems that pros or seasoned chainsaw veterans have caused by their own hands! :msp_unsure:

I'm thinking about 15-20 sec to create that cross-hatch pattern you see in a new saw cylinder.

I don't think there is much doubt that nearly every saw manufacturer hones the final few thousandths prior to final assembly, and assuming that's a fact, what the diff, as long as we only enlarge the bore maybe a quarter thousandth?

All the cylinder bore tech literature talks about a certain measured microscopic roughness, when new....that's right, microscopic roughness on a new cylinder wall to help seat new rings.

Don't kill me. I'm interested in learning something! :smile2:

In that amount of time you can kill a cylinder with a hone, I've seen ti done.

RTK · Dec 22, 2011

Brian VT said:
If it's glazed, then you might use a Scotch-Brite pad to get that off. Nothing more abrasive than that....

That's what you do with Nikasil and what I would do too

It takes a diamond hone to cut Nikasil and once done at the manufacturer not need to ever do it again.

one.man.band · Dec 22, 2011

suggest checking for sharp edges around port perimeter edges (where a ring could catch) and deal with those. no matter what method you decide to use.

Saw Dr. · Dec 22, 2011

Fish said:
Don't.....

+1

etbrown4 · Dec 22, 2011

I understand that most posters feel that honing is not a good idea!

Having said that, I thought it might be worthwhile to post a link to a short video promoting the use of light honing, and the result of a good cutting saw thereafter. Flex Hone Demonstration Video - YouTube

It looks like the video was put out there by or on behalf of Bailey's the chainsaw supply folks. I thought they had a pretty good reputation.

I agree with the poster who warned about using the round hone, out of concern that it might slightly round some port edges. That seems completely legit, though the video from Bailey's gives us a different clue.

I'm sure many more will want to join in to this interesting discussion!

It would be extra helpful if some young or old 'pros' who have done honing with a bad OR good personal result - could tell us what happened to them!

ZeroJunk · Dec 22, 2011

If the bore is clean I don't know that you would accomplish anything by honing.

I hone damaged cylinders that have some minor scratches. But, it is more like three or four seconds one way and then three or four seconds in reverse. Fifteen seconds is a long time.
It will wear the plating off the down wind side of the ports pretty quick.

Honing will not cause the world to come to an end as long as you don't over do it.

RTK · Dec 22, 2011

You can hone a cylinder but if it is Nikasil there is never a need to. Google Nikasil coating and see the manufacturers recommendations, Nikasil needs a diamond hone to cut it, other cheaper flame coatings do not and can be destroyed by a minimal amount of honing
You can clean it up with a scotch bright pad and kerosene if need be.

rms61moparman · Dec 22, 2011

If you look at 2:38 in that video you will see why I think honing a chainsaw cylinder is akin to bloodletting!!!

Take a look at the edges of that port.

See the removal of the nikasil?
See where the hone beat the hell out of the port edges?

BAD MEDICINE!

Mike

galde · Dec 22, 2011

A fresh cross-hatching for new rings might be appropriate for cast iron bores in 4-stroke engines with intake & exhaust valves instead of ports in the cylinder wall, but the cross-hatch in a new 2-stroke's plated bore is simply the result of the manufaqcturing process, and is not there to produce rotation of the rings, since in a 2-stroke the rings are pinned. The plated surface of a 2-stroke should not be touched except to remove a glaze or piston metal deposits or to slick down high areas such as the ridges on either side of a groove.

Jacob J. · Dec 22, 2011

rms61moparman said:
BAD MEDICINE!

Mike

Even JBJ doesn't hone Nikasil cylinders.

Brian VT · Dec 22, 2011

etbrown4 said:
I agree with the poster who warned about using the round hone, out of concern that it might slightly round some port edges.

Rounding the edges might not be a bad thing. More often a hone will catch the edge of the coating and chip/flake it off. Not good.

Andyshine77 · Dec 22, 2011

At one time I liked the idea of honing plus how it looks, but it's really not needed in a 2 cycle cylinder. Clean the cylinder and remove any transfer, knock down any high spots and you're good to go.

Honing a Shihl Cylinder. What's the proper grit?

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