Which is more?

[stihlrookie]

I have a been selling firewood for a couple years now to a varied client base. My question is, who gets the most firewood per cord, the guy that wants it all in rounds, the richy rich family that wants it split or the older folks who want it split and chopped even further? Typically I split all my orders, anything up to 10" I knock in half, beyond that size I quarter or even into 1/8 depending on starting size of rounds. I have never measured a set amount of rounds, split them up and restacked to see what it comes out too. I recently had a gentleman ask for quite small splits, 3-4" for his fireplace insert and it got me to thinking maybe he got more wood than say the guy who wanted it all in rounds. I don't know. I guess I could roll across some scales with a load of rounds, offload, split, reload and see what it weighs, keeping the volume the same. Anyone help me out here?

 

[Mac88]

Small splits, stacked tight, would contain the most wood, if all stacks were the same size. The biggest pieces would give the least wood. Imagine a 4x4x8 stack made up of 8 2' diameter logs. Lots of air in that "cord".

 

[stihlrookie]

Small splits, stacked tight, would contain the most wood, if all stacks were the same size. The biggest pieces would give the least wood. Imagine a 4x4x8 stack made up of 8 2' diameter logs. Lots of air in that "cord".

Yes, I knew that logs or rounds would be the least. As the days get shorter I generally go to the woods and cut 66" long logs and haul those home to process at my leisure. I know I have to haul a larger pile of logs than rounds to get the same amount at final process. I guess I was really wondering about the smaller the split how that came out. Thanks Mac.

 

[memory]

Wait a minute, I thought you could get more unsplit rounds in a load. I believe someone on here did a small scale test on this very idea. He determined that if you had a truck load of unsplit rounds and split them same pieces, you could not get them all back in the truck.

 

[Mac88]

I guess I was really wondering about the smaller the split how that came out. Thanks Mac.

Just picture a cord of wooden paint stir sticks. It's ALL wood. ;o)

 

[stihlrookie]

I am certain that with logs and maybe even rounds that you get less in a load than with split wood. There may be a point of diminishing returns the smaller you split though. We are talking firewood, not dimensional wood.

 

[D&B Mack]

I have done all of the following at one point time on several occasions to check sale volumes.

Wood expands in volume as you split it. Now, you may be able to split all to kindling and get a smaller volume. But for common sizes, it all expands the smaller you get.

Again, this assuming no extremes. You also can't take 36" rounds and stack them and say "Well, it is less than if split." But since you are not using uniform sizes once split, you can't use uniform sizes in rounds either. Otherwise, it is comparing apples and oranges.

I do know, if I load one of my dump trailers with cut rounds (with a loader, not by hand) and the piles are loose piled inside (not stacked); I get far more rounds in a trailer than I can get split.

I have done the experiment with rounds before as I was selling unsplit wood and figuring out what it comes to. And I have done at least 25 -30 tests with split wood. When I started my bundled firewood business, I tried this out to figure how to maximize inventory. In order to provide an decent product, I figured I had to provide at least 6 splits per package. But if I provided 8-9, it actually used less wood. Plus, it burns faster which is good for sales. :msp_biggrin:

 

[Hddnis]

A cord of unsplit rounds weighs more than a cord of split wood, same moisture level. Varies a little with size of rounds. Just no way we mere mortals will ever get the wood put back together as tightly as mother nature did.




Mr. HE

 

[Dalmatian90]

The Curlcherry Definitive Scientific Answer:

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/110955-6.htm#post1762097

And the original Curlcherry Experiment, using simulated firewood size rounds instead of monster rounds:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/110955-3.htm#post1754501

Buy it bucked into rounds and stacked as a cord...you'll have more then a cord after you split and restack it.

Logs your mileage may vary, because it's harder to tightly stack them (taper along the length, bends, bulges, etc.) If you had uniform logs, my guess is it would work out even more to your advantage...but usually folks aren't selling the premium trunks for firewood but instead the tops that are much more variable.

 

[Rsquared]

I Want that tiny little rack of wood for my desk at work. That is awesome!!!!!!

 

[Mr Good Wood]

Well lets put this into the mix. green wood split vs seasoned wood split. wood shrinks by 5%-8% as it drys out or seasons.

 

[zogger]

When I have been guesstimating my wood this year, I sometimes measure the trunk before bucking and get a cord % that way. I know later on that will be "more" in the stacks. Doesn't mean much cutting for yourself, just something to do. I have not yet immediately split and stacked a "known log cord" to see how much more I get. I should, would be interesting.

Another fun one to do for one of you guys with some quality video capapbility, who has a fresh green stack sometime is time lapse video it, say a few seconds a day from the exact place and same time of day (close enough lighting) with a tripod or something like that. Spray paint the ends of a few at random. It would be interesting to watch the stack as it moves around a little while it seasons. Would make a nice five minute youtube vid.

Yes, I am easily amused

I'm cheating right now! Hit some two year old small hickory rounds into the stove..ya some uglies but was walking by the stack this afternoon and went WHY NOT?? It's my wood, I can burn it!

 

[Mac88]

I'm cheating right now! Hit some two year old small hickory rounds into the stove..ya some uglies but was walking by the stack this afternoon and went WHY NOT?? It's my wood, I can burn it!

I grabbed a few oak and mulberry splits out of the shed and brought them in to mix with the silver maple and cedar in the wood box. Just in case.

 

[memory]

The Curlcherry Definitive Scientific Answer:

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/110955-6.htm#post1762097

And the original Curlcherry Experiment, using simulated firewood size rounds instead of monster rounds:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/110955-3.htm#post1754501

Buy it bucked into rounds and stacked as a cord...you'll have more then a cord after you split and restack it.

Logs your mileage may vary, because it's harder to tightly stack them (taper along the length, bends, bulges, etc.) If you had uniform logs, my guess is it would work out even more to your advantage...but usually folks aren't selling the premium trunks for firewood but instead the tops that are much more variable.

That is the thread I was thinking of. I always thought, probably like most people, that a truck load would hold more split than in rounds.

 

[Mac88]

That is the thread I was thinking of. I always thought, probably like most people, that a truck load would hold more split than in rounds.

I suppose, if you are using strictly stove-size rounds to start with. We split a lot more 24" to 48" rounds than we do 10" or less. The splits take up a lot less space than the rounds they are split from.

 

[memory]

I suppose, if you are using strictly stove-size rounds to start with. We split a lot more 24" to 48" rounds than we do 10" or less. The splits take up a lot less space than the rounds they are split from.

But the concept is still the same. If you have bigger rounds, that means there is more space between the rounds which means you could put smaller rounds or splits into those spaces.

 

[stihlrookie]

I have seen the light

It makes more sense to me now that bucked rounds would be more firewood by volume than logs or splits in a standard pickup load. Typically a load of firewood in rounds would consist of diminishing sized rounds. Smaller rounds can be used to fill the voids between the largest rounds and so on, lessening the amount of airspace. From a production standpoint I would do best to buck logs into rounds to haul out of the forest for the most wood per load volume wise.

I mostly attempt to process a load of firewood that I am selling completely in the forest, it cuts down on alot of additional handling as well as me having to concern myself with disposing of saw chips and bark. As the days get shorter and the weather turns for the worse making my trips into the mountains more of an adventure I start making quick trips and hauling logs to my house. I can then process at my leisure and when I can no longer make it up into the mountains, think snow and mud. I know it adds extra handling but it allows me to collect as much wood as possible and then I can be selling whilst others are done for the season. Bucking into rounds would only take a bit more time and the additional time in loading as well but would allow me to fill the voids left by logs fore and aft of the wheel wells in my pickup. Or I can just throw an extra log or two on top of the load and compensate for those voids. Good discussion, thanks all.

 

[turnkey4099]

Wait a minute, I thought you could get more unsplit rounds in a load. I believe someone on here did a small scale test on this very idea. He determined that if you had a truck load of unsplit rounds and split them same pieces, you could not get them all back in the truck.

That's correct. At each stage in proceesing from full log to bucked and split the pile will grow bigger but contain the same amount of wood = allowing for loss of chips/sawdust/bark of course.

Bottom line. You cannot stack a split round into a smaller space than it occupies unsplit.

There is sticky on the subject at the top of the 'firewood' page. Gives that test plus several others that anyone can do while watching the evening news.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Just picture a cord of wooden paint stir sticks. It's ALL wood. ;o)

Nope. You are forgetting the little cuttouts in the handles.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

I am certain that with logs and maybe even rounds that you get less in a load than with split wood. There may be a point of diminishing returns the smaller you split though. We are talking firewood, not dimensional wood.

Although it is counter to "common sense" the finer you split, the more air you build into the pile. I suspect that if it was totally reduced to sawdust it would still 'swell up' unless compressed.

Harry K