heat oil with wood?

trialanderror · Dec 21, 2008

seems like every post on here talks about heating water. but i did find one link to
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Mode...-01/Mothers-Wood-burning-Hot-Oil-Furnace.aspx

which talks about heating oil.

A friend of my dad gave him his old owb. it's quite tiny, not sure of who made it, it's probably 90-120 gallon.

I've been doing alot of reading, and checking out others installations (the actual expensive whipped out $8K) and been coming up with my own ideas.

since i do maint at an apartment complex, i've come to get ahold of many various items to start my own setup.

A/C coils/conden units. ~140 or so laying around, most are with 5/8" tubing, ~ 16" wide 12" tall 6" deep. I figured they would be nice to put in conjunction of my moms forced air LP furnace. Lots of 24v transformers and relays. Quite a few used 1 1/2" ball valves from water heater replacements (i have all 35 of the old water heaters, never know, might have something useful on them).

I figured whether i use the burner we were given, or buy one, eithe way i need to plumb the house. When heating oil, easily reach temps of 400F. Will normal Therompex stuff work? or do i need something special? Also would i need to go with 1"? couldn't i drop to something smaller if such higher temps would be used and good insulation?? and i'm sure there's circulator pumps that'll move hot oil. worse to worse, grab one of the many hydraulic pumps dad has on the shelve to move the oil, as they're designed for these temps....(hes' a fan of the 2 stage ones for splitters, so he's collected quite a few)

I suppose my goal here is to heat oil in the 375-400 range, and maintain it. I wouldn't have alot of money into the system, so i wouldn't be out of anything. and for starters it would be getting rid of the 3 fires in each house, 6 in total (!!) Mom's been getting older and crazy, and she's left the door wide open quite a few times.....

Reason i like oil; doesn't corrode, twice as hot without boilover, wont freeze, and if i can get by with 1/2" pipe, then i'm all set

I can always install another burner if it's too small...

any more quesitons hit me up. i'm going to loose my 2 weeks paid vacation soon, so i gotta burn it. I'd like to be constructive. or at least get a plan started. I'm not worried about heating the hot water at the moment, that's for later. i'm more concerned about these fire hazards inside the house. Goal is to heat 2 houses; both 2 bed, bath, normal midsize house. and this summer me and pops would like to put up a 40x50x20ft high building (tall earth movers and stuff, need alot of ceiling). so figure that into the equation as well.

Some where on here i read it would work to have a small amount of liquid to heat on the burner itself, then pipe it into the building, which dumps into a bigger tank, which then will feed the house, and eventually return to the firebox.... possible? feasible?

we have torches, and a heavy duty mig with all gasses needed. central iron is a 10 min drive from where i'm working.

hope for some info, jason.

trialanderror · Dec 23, 2008

can't be done? not practical? thermopex won't stand temps past 200F? 100 views and no replies....

bama · Dec 23, 2008

trialanderror said:
seems like every post on here talks about heating water. but i did find one link to
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Mode...-01/Mothers-Wood-burning-Hot-Oil-Furnace.aspx

which talks about heating oil.

A friend of my dad gave him his old owb. it's quite tiny, not sure of who made it, it's probably 90-120 gallon.

I've been doing alot of reading, and checking out others installations (the actual expensive whipped out $8K) and been coming up with my own ideas.

since i do maint at an apartment complex, i've come to get ahold of many various items to start my own setup.

A/C coils/conden units. ~140 or so laying around, most are with 5/8" tubing, ~ 16" wide 12" tall 6" deep. I figured they would be nice to put in conjunction of my moms forced air LP furnace. Lots of 24v transformers and relays. Quite a few used 1 1/2" ball valves from water heater replacements (i have all 35 of the old water heaters, never know, might have something useful on them).

I figured whether i use the burner we were given, or buy one, eithe way i need to plumb the house. When heating oil, easily reach temps of 400F. Will normal Therompex stuff work? or do i need something special? Also would i need to go with 1"? couldn't i drop to something smaller if such higher temps would be used and good insulation?? and i'm sure there's circulator pumps that'll move hot oil. worse to worse, grab one of the many hydraulic pumps dad has on the shelve to move the oil, as they're designed for these temps....(hes' a fan of the 2 stage ones for splitters, so he's collected quite a few)

I suppose my goal here is to heat oil in the 375-400 range, and maintain it. I wouldn't have alot of money into the system, so i wouldn't be out of anything. and for starters it would be getting rid of the 3 fires in each house, 6 in total (!!) Mom's been getting older and crazy, and she's left the door wide open quite a few times.....

Reason i like oil; doesn't corrode, twice as hot without boilover, wont freeze, and if i can get by with 1/2" pipe, then i'm all set I can always install another burner if it's too small...

any more quesitons hit me up. i'm going to loose my 2 weeks paid vacation soon, so i gotta burn it. I'd like to be constructive. or at least get a plan started. I'm not worried about heating the hot water at the moment, that's for later. i'm more concerned about these fire hazards inside the house. Goal is to heat 2 houses; both 2 bed, bath, normal midsize house. and this summer me and pops would like to put up a 40x50x20ft high building (tall earth movers and stuff, need alot of ceiling). so figure that into the equation as well.

Some where on here i read it would work to have a small amount of liquid to heat on the burner itself, then pipe it into the building, which dumps into a bigger tank, which then will feed the house, and eventually return to the firebox.... possible? feasible?

we have torches, and a heavy duty mig with all gasses needed. central iron is a 10 min drive from where i'm working.

hope for some info, jason.

I don't know what the thermal conductivity difference between oil and water are, but I would be afraid of a leak in the oil. It would start quite a fire if it was in the "water" jacket. It must be cheaper to run water/antifreeze than oil? I do not know, but it is all I can think of.

drmiller100 · Dec 23, 2008

water holds more btus per gallon or pound then pretty much any other liquid.

if it were me, i'd use water and a bigger circulatoin pump.

Butch(OH) · Dec 24, 2008

I have always thought the Mother Earth news crowd to be a odd bunch. A strange mixture of ex flower-childs, amateur scientists, outright con artists and recluse types. Some usfull info on the site but be careful about putting their "facts" in the bank until proven otherwise.

JONSEREDFAN6069 · Dec 24, 2008

gotta figure water is free, that much oil 90 to 120 gal is going to be a huge expense, what you are saving on your free parts will all be used up and then some. if your dead set on this oil thing try a resteraunt chain and hit em up for they're used cooking oil and strain it out really good. just an idea.

savageactor7 · Dec 24, 2008

trialanderror why couldn't you use use an antifreeze mixture instead of water? that won't corrode or boil over.

I'm not too familial with OWB...yeah I know what they are but I never would have thought they just heated water alone.

trialanderror · Dec 24, 2008

i was for sure going to use cheap veg oil i have connection had a mcondalds restrant i used to work at. we were always dumping 100gallons a week into a tub to recycle..... i had no intentions of using motor oil or hydraulic fluid.

only problem is, would it be as effecint as water? I think it would. Heat oil to 300F, by the time it gets to the house, so what if it drops 100F? 200F air is plenty warm.

i'm tyring to figure out if 1/2" line would be suffecient. so much more temp to compensate for smaller amount fluid.

antifreeze is expensive 7/gal. 400gallon system? 50 50 mix? $1400 in just antifreeze, added to that 'free' water.....and should use the pink stuff incase a leak did happen. But on the subject of leaks, i'm not worried, if the work is done right, no leaks should take place. and if oil is used, the copper shouldn't corrode after time.

and i know the oil won't start fire if it's heated in the jacket around the firebox. no different then heating up fry oil with loads of oxygen around it...does it combust when heated to 350F? no.

from what i can tell, this tiny OWB is only 90gallon. If i did water, i don't know if i could get away with 300gal storage tanks at each household it's going to heat. it might, but the firebox is soo small it might be a pain stoking it all the time. But then again, if everything is insulated to the max, maybe it wouldn't be too bad.

can thermopex take high oil temps up to 350F?
i suppose i got 2 options.
1; if using water
install the thermopex, install storage tanks in each house. install the tiny wood burner. try it. if it fails. build/buy a bigger burner.

2; if using oil
install the plumping, install small storage tanks, and try the burner.

i suppose the only questions i need answered are.

would oil be practical at high temps with 1/2" plumbing. and can therompex handle high oil temps?

either way assuming everything is insulated to near thermopex specificatiosn.

thx for the help in advance. Ideas may sound crazy until they work, and they won't work until we do it, and we can't do it until we ask questions

well, "can't" and "shouldn't" could be used vice versa....

/me shrugs

laynes69 · Dec 24, 2008

One way to possibly get around corrosion issues. Have a series of tubes with water running through the oil around the firebox. That way the oil stays in the boiler. Maybe it would protect the firebox, and transfer the heat to the water for the heat exchanger. Just a thought. Kinda like an engine. Maybe even the firebox would produce higher temps inside from the oil.

chowdozer · Dec 24, 2008

I know nothing of OWB's but, if you're concerned about corrosion, use zinc sacrificial anodes at several points in your system. The more the better. If you don't like the cost of antifreeze, use water and put a drain valve in the lowest part of your system. If it's underground, give it a sump to drain to and use an electrically actuated valve to drain the system.

ericjeeper · Dec 24, 2008

flowing BTUs

only so many btus will flow through a given sized tube. Your oil theory will be a disaster in the making.Oil is for lubricating and burning,.Water and glycol are safe and a proven theory.
Go with the flow man. Do not try to reinvent the wheel..

trialanderror · Dec 25, 2008

ericjeeper said:
only so many btus will flow through a given sized tube. Your oil theory will be a disaster in the making.Oil is for lubricating and burning,.Water and glycol are safe and a proven theory.
Go with the flow man. Do not try to reinvent the wheel..

did some thermal conductivity searches on google and wikipedia.
gonna be water hands down. water is actually quite poor compared to other fluids, but it is better then oil.

I suppose now the question is should i get the 1.25 or stick with just 1" therompex?

$1100 for 100' of 1" is quite pricey. i need 3 100' runs.....

i suppose i'll just install the smaller hand-me down burner and use some big insulated storage tanks in each building. see how it does. if it doesn't perform to my specs, just get a bigger boiler.

treeslayer · Dec 25, 2008

drmiller100 said:
www.firewoodprocessors

this link does not work.

drmiller100 · Dec 25, 2008

try it now.....

i'm curious what fluids carry more btus per pound then water.

oil is thicker then water. so, you would need bigger lines for oil then you need for water.
the hotter the temp of the fluid, the more energy you will lose and the more insulation you need.

Moss Man · Dec 25, 2008

I am a huge fan of the K.I.S.S. Principle. Water.

Streblerm · Dec 25, 2008

If you are worried about corrosion use distilled water. I think it is more the minerals in the water that cause the problems.

trialanderror · Dec 25, 2008

drmiller100 said:
try it now.....

i'm curious what fluids carry more btus per pound then water.

oil is thicker then water. so, you would need bigger lines for oil then you need for water.
the hotter the temp of the fluid, the more energy you will lose and the more insulation you need.

oil thicker then water?

i've drained 5w30 from a hot engine. first time i did so i had to double look to make sure there wasn't coolant in the oilpan! sounded like water spilling into the pan

trialanderror · Dec 25, 2008

Streblerm said:
If you are worried about corrosion use distilled water. I think it is more the minerals in the water that cause the problems.

naw, i get loads of that water heater treatment stuff from work. plus using anode rods plus starting out with neutral water and keeping it neutral would be a big help. maybe dump the system every spring.....

Jkebxjunke · Dec 25, 2008

the 1/2" pipe is way too restrictive.. as your size doubles your frictional head loss goes down exponentially... go with a larger pipe.

BlueRidgeMark · Dec 25, 2008

drmiller100 said:
try it now.....

i'm curious what fluids carry more btus per pound then water.

Hmmm. Just a guess, but I suspect mercury would, for one.

A heavy salt water solution should, too, I think.

Obviously, neither is a good choice for other reasons. :laugh:

I have to agree about reinventing the wheel. There's usually a good reason, or many good reasons, why a particular way of doing something becomes the norm. Tinkering in your shop is great - let the creativity flow!

But sinking serious bucks into something that people depend on for heat - that's not the place for experimenting, unless you are made of money.

On the subject of insulation, always go heavy on that. Way back a long time ago, I worked for a manufacturer's rep in the plumbing industry, and one of our lines was insulated copper pipe. I learned about heat loss in underground pipes. I hear people talking about putting pipes in drainage tile with some fiberglass, and I just shake my head. OR talking about their pipes melting snow above them, and I know how much energy that takes. All that effort to gather and split wood, stoke the stove, not to mention the investment in equipment, and they are throwing away half their heat because they are too cheap to insulate! :dizzy:

heat oil with wood?

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