Chain types and cut speeds

gmcman · May 30, 2009

Since I will be adding a larger saw in the very near future, I would like to get some input on chisels and skip chains and cut speeds. My 340 works just fine with a micro chisel, (95VP) really not sure if a skip chain would even speed up the process.

As for 70cc saws, is it safe to assume with all things being equal, that more teeth cut faster at the same chain speed? Are skip chains just preferred for larger saws and 24-28" bar lengths...or not?

I understand that higher chain speeds cut faster but at what point does a faster skip cut faster than a slightly slower non-skip...or am I mising something..(obviously I am

)?

Would like a round chisel just because it seems easier to sharpen.

Bailey's has a good deal on a bar/chain combo with the Oregon 72LGX chain and was curious if anyone has used this chain on a 372.

I've pretty much always ran down to the borgs and grabbed a chain and it worked good. After I used the Super 20 chain and the 95VP on my 340 it's a different saw, so with the plethora of chains out there I need to be re-educated.

Brought this up in my Husky saw thread but it's too off-topic.

gallegosmike · May 30, 2009

gmcman said:
Since I will be adding a larger saw in the very near future, I would like to get some input on chisels and skip chains and cut speeds. My 340 works just fine with a micro chisel, (95VP) really not sure if a skip chain would even speed up the process.

As for 70cc saws, is it safe to assume with all things being equal, that more teeth cut faster at the same chain speed? Are skip chains just preferred for larger saws and 24-28" bar lengths...or not?

I understand that higher chain speeds cut faster but at what point does a faster skip cut faster than a slightly slower non-skip...or am I mising something..(obviously I am )?

Would like a round chisel just because it seems easier to sharpen.

Bailey's has a good deal on a bar/chain combo with the Oregon 72LGX chain and was curious if anyone has used this chain on a 372.

I've pretty much always ran down to the borgs and grabbed a chain and it worked good. After I used the Super 20 chain and the 95VP on my 340 it's a different saw, so with the plethora of chains out there I need to be re-educated.

Brought this up in my Husky saw thread but it's too off-topic.

The oregon bars are okay, but the chain just blows! Look at baileys carlton husky large mount bars. They are better deal and abit harder. For chain get some woodland pro 30rc. They have it for a good price and its better then oregon lgx chain. For a better, but more expensive chain. Get some stihl RSC,
its alot harder. Its a really tough chain and stays sharp longer then other brands of chain.

Meadow Beaver · May 30, 2009

Oh lord, this kind of thread can go all sorts of places.

gmcman · May 30, 2009

It can but i'm just trying to grasp the comcept of skip-chains and when are they most required. Naturally I don't want a saw to bog down in the cut in which I see how a skip would help to prevent this.. but are they designed to prevent clogging on discharge or do they just cut better?

Not so much for me to understand but seems like a good thread.

Meadow Beaver · May 30, 2009

This all depends on what type of wood your cutting, what length bar and chain, whether your burying the bar or not, how clean the wood is, or how long you want your chain to stay sharp. These are all good things to think about when buying saw chain.

mowoodchopper · May 30, 2009

For me on a 70cc saw I would run a 24 inch bar for the big stuff and a 20 if you want a power house.
I would run full chisel non skip for both and if in the dirt I would run semi chisel!
Brand is up to you I run carlton, its cheap!

On your 340 id stick with the setup you have 325/NK on a 16 will rip!

TravisL · May 30, 2009

i hope some one will answer this question cause im curious too. can we talk round tooth/ round chisel, and full chisel too!

mowoodchopper · May 30, 2009

TravisL said:
i hope some one will answer this question cause im curious too. can we talk round tooth/ round chisel, and full chisel too!

I just did, I would run round ground full chisel if not in the dirt, semi chisel in the dirt it is easier to sharpen if you knock the tips back!

Meadow Beaver · May 30, 2009

If it's dirty run semi-chisel, slightly dirty- round square, and if it's normal green or nice clean wood square chisel.

And sequences: full comp on longer bars is good for saws that can pull it and you're doing a lot of limbing. Semi-skip is a good median between full skip and full comp, and it obviously still limbs better than full skip. Full skip is for long bars that are buried in the wood and need to steadily pull chips a long ways. But all of these factors depend on the application.

rms61moparman · May 30, 2009

gmcman said:
Since I will be adding a larger saw in the very near future, I would like to get some input on chisels and skip chains and cut speeds. My 340 works just fine with a micro chisel, (95VP) really not sure if a skip chain would even speed up the process.

As for 70cc saws, is it safe to assume with all things being equal, that more teeth cut faster at the same chain speed? Are skip chains just preferred for larger saws and 24-28" bar lengths...or not?

I understand that higher chain speeds cut faster but at what point does a faster skip cut faster than a slightly slower non-skip...or am I mising something..(obviously I am )?

Would like a round chisel just because it seems easier to sharpen.

Bailey's has a good deal on a bar/chain combo with the Oregon 72LGX chain and was curious if anyone has used this chain on a 372.

I've pretty much always ran down to the borgs and grabbed a chain and it worked good. After I used the Super 20 chain and the 95VP on my 340 it's a different saw, so with the plethora of chains out there I need to be re-educated.

Brought this up in my Husky saw thread but it's too off-topic.

gmcman,

First, I am no expert and all of the info from here on will be my opinion and/or experience.

I have run the skip and the full comp on the same saw (56cc Poulan 3400) and the same day.
I couldn't tell that much difference in the speed of the two in the cut.

The skip was easier to pull and therefore turned faster and cut well.
The full comp was noticeably harder for the saw to pull as evidenced by the sound, but wasn't an unreasonable load. It turned slower but with twice as many cutters it cut very similar in speed to the skip.

The skip was faster to sharpen, slightly faster to dull and tingled MY hands a lot worse, especially in the smaller wood.
I think my 3400 would do better with the skip and a 24" bar in 23 inch wood, but with a 20" bar in 6"-20" wood I will keep my full comp.

If you have a 372 and occasionally run a 32" bar buried with skip I think you would be fine where a full comp chain would be a good load for that saw. (unless one of our resident "grindaholics" had helped it breathe a little better)
If you planned to run a buried 32" bar really often I would suggest you buy a 385XP or its equivalent and run full comp.

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth) skip chain is just a substitute for not having enough power to pull a "real" chain. You can squeeze an additional 4"-8" bar on a saw with it but for occasional use only.

JMHO-HTH

Mike

If that doesn't answer your question ask and I will try to give you a better answer.

HimWill · May 30, 2009

rms61moparman said:
gmcman,

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth) skip chain is just a substitute for not having enough power to pull a "real" chain. You can squeeze an additional 4"-8" bar on a saw with it but for occasional use only.

That pretty well sums it up for me too.

gmcman · May 31, 2009

So basically, when you have a long way to pull chips, a full-skip works best but may not cut faster....but is more efficient.

This should be a sticky.

When you look up chains now there is just too much to choose from, and the "rookies" but not novice like me, need this good info

It's been touched on alot, but given the new technology on anti-vibration...yadda, yadda, it's good to know what you are in the market for.

Very good, thanks for the info :cheers:

GASoline71 · May 31, 2009

rms61moparman said:
In my opinion (take it for what it's worth) skip chain is just a substitute for not having enough power to pull a "real" chain. You can squeeze an additional 4"-8" bar on a saw with it but for occasional use only.

JMHO-HTH

Like you said... JYHO...

A "real" chain has nothin' to do with it... pullin' long chains in big softwood with 70cc to 80cc saws is pretty much a lot of the cuttin' up here. It's all about chip clearance... you obviously don't grasp the concept of the long bar...

So MHO is that unless you actually cut with full skip on long bars... no need to comment. Full skip does it's job on long bars... and does it well.

I can bury a 32" bar with full skip with an 044 or an 046 in big softwoods that you would prolly use a 066 (or larger) on and still run a shorter bar and full comp. To me that is silly... but since I wouldn't know about short bar syndrome... I will not comment.

Gary

motoroilmccall · May 31, 2009

Full skip is good in hardwoods too, but only for the big stuff. We use it a lot on 28" bars on the 044, or the 046, or 066.

For smaller stuff, don't bother with skip. Like Gary said, its all about getting the saw chips out. Full Comp stops cutting fresh wood in big wood, it just cuts up chips, or floats on them. Full chisel has more space for the chips to pile up, and the cutters are able to cut fresh wood all the while through the wood.

Believe it or not, full skip will cut as fast or faster as full comp in big wood on long bars, in soft, or hard wood.

Patrick62 · May 31, 2009

Skip chain, 101

My experiences:

First, understand that due to elevation, my saws run about 25% less power.

I have full skip on the 044, 24" bar. It does just fine on it. Run the rakers slightly hungry at about .030 It is a little bouncy on limbing, but blocks well.

I ran the 260 on full skip with a 18" bar. The little saw ran just a touch short on power when the bar was burried... Excellent limbing saw, just keep the rpm up or it grabbed a bit.

Both of these have been run with full comp, and in smaller wood worked well.

The 460 just got switched over to "semi skip" last week. I usually ran full skip and a 8 tooth drive spkt. Swapped the semi skip on there for a experiment. First impressions... it runs very smooth. Bores well. With the extra cutters it moved chips well. RPM stayed up well. I am going to stay with this combination for awhile.

The 064 quite simply has enough grunt to pull any combination of cutters on a 28" bar thru anything I have up here for wood. Currently a loop of semi-skip is on there, and I need to stick a 8 pin drive spkt on there.

MCW · Jun 1, 2009

rms61moparman said:
gmcman,

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth) skip chain is just a substitute for not having enough power to pull a "real" chain.

I don't believe thats the case at all. I have used a lot of 3/8" and .404" semi chisel in skip and non skip. In any bars 32" or over I try to use skip. I haven't noticed any real difference in cutting speed, even with the 3120. As mentioned above chip clearance also becomes a factor with longer bars - especially with softer woods like Pine.
If I have to use a 32" bar in Aussie hardwood there is no question which saw I'd rather be using between my 7900 and 3120. I'll grab the 7900 anyday (a LOT lighter) with semi chisel skip and know it'll cut well in hardwood. Non skip it's struggling with that bar length in hardwood. Even though I rarely file and grind all my chains you'll certainly be sharpening a lot less cutters throughout the day using skip.

Wild Knight · Jun 1, 2009

GASoline71 said:
To me that is silly... but since I wouldn't know about short bar syndrome... I will not comment.

Which is it? Is it that you believe it is silly or are you not commenting?

Here is a previous thread on chains. It gets to the questions of the OP towards the bottom.

MCW · Jun 1, 2009

Erick said:
I'm not gonna go into "chipper chain" much because it's really kinda become obsolete and you likely will never see any but it will have a very rounded cutter profile and look more like a question mark ?.

Obsolete? Certainly not obsolete in Australia

Good chain for the harshest conditions. If you don't like sharpening then this is the chain for you

(I grabbed this from the thread outlined above).

Meadow Beaver · Jun 1, 2009

Yes I'm completely with Gary on this, full skip isn't neccesary for every time you lose a long bar. For instance an 090G will pull a 50" bar with full comp no prob because it has the torque, an 044 ( in stock form) might have a harder time cutting with 32" bar and full comp. But if you've got a good saw full comp is the way to go (or atleast semi-skip), because in my opinion I think skip chain is to slooowww.

GASoline71 · Jun 1, 2009

Wild Knight said:
Which is it? Is it that you believe it is silly or are you not commenting?

Yes...

Gary

Chain types and cut speeds

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