How to know if a dead tree is safe to fell?

DeanBrown3D · Jul 10, 2006

I am about to take down a tree for a friend and its been dead for at least 2 years now. Half of one side is eaten away by something, on the lean side, to around 5 feet tall, then it appears solid and untouched. I was going to fell it by cutting just above this point, where it seems to be solid.

I guess I want to know how many years dead makes a really dangerous tree throughout.

Thanks

Dean

computeruser · Jul 10, 2006

I don't think that there is any particular rule that connects time to safety. Tree species, cause of death, weather conditions, blah blah blah.

In my experience, the most notable characteristic of a dead tree is that it does not hinge well. As such, unless the tree is tiny and/or it is absolutely impossible to do so, I always fell dead trees under rope tension, sometimes using the a vehicle to pull it. That way even if it doesn't hinge at all, it can only fall in one direction.

Any pictures of the tree in question?

clearance · Jul 10, 2006

First I was going to say "if you have to ask" but, you are going to fall it from 5' up? I have done stuff like that as well, with 288 as high as I could, it isn't advised. Every tree is different, some live trees are worse than some dead trees ( live hemlock thats a hollow pipe vs. stone cold red cedar that is solid as new ). Whats it leaning at? The rot is on the lean side, ok, if there is nothing to hit can you just fall it with the lean?

911crash · Jul 10, 2006

i would put a line on it with a wide face and cut. dont put to much tension on line otherwise it might fail on you(the tree)

DeanBrown3D · Jul 10, 2006

The good point is that it is leaning exactly where I want it to fall, and the rot is in that same direction, toward the lean.

dakota · Jul 10, 2006

Like Clearance hinted at, cutting a notch 5' up is not really advised - unless you're a starting center in the NBA. How necessary is it? Are you sure that that spot is any better then a little lower?

DeanBrown3D · Jul 10, 2006

I may stand on a step ladder. Its not going to fall back, the lean is too strong.

smokechase II · Jul 11, 2006

high faller

How much snow does Princeton NJ get?

Well, if the rot is on the side that it is leaning toward and that is also the direction you like it to fall.

Probably not a big deal.
Then again, life is complicated. So are many trees.
Got any photos?

Sprig · Jul 11, 2006

Personaly I'd probably just fall it at a normal level, being very cautious of potential widow-makers etc, as it seems that going higher would create an unstable fall (ie. kickback/jilpoke/stem push, unpredictable directional type things, how fast can u run). Cynche (sic) the upper portion above your cuts to prevent unexpected splits, if need be the bottom of the cut zone too. Put your face cut through the tree centering the rotted parts and using the sides of it (the good wood) as two hinges....[[[.....]]], carefully backcut and run away. This is how I would tackle it and probably very wrong, i might die. The biggest concern I'd have is what is going to fall (dead branches) on you. I have several similar trees to do soon here and the scariest one has been dead for at least three years, there are big branches 100+ up and I intend to be very gentle (no wedging) and have a good lookout (up?). Wear your PPG, plan ahead, is all I can say. There are very many experienced fallers here and I am sure they will chime in eventually.
Good, safe, falling. I do not profess to be an expert but I am still alive, be safe man.

:cheers:

Serge

My edit. Get someone who knows their stuff to have a look-see.

trevmcrev · Jul 11, 2006

DeanBrown3D said:
I may stand on a step ladder. Its not going to fall back, the lean is too strong.

Do not try it from a ladder. Do it at normal height, the lean will bring it down.

Far safer. If you feel it must be felled from higher up i know id feel safer in a harness on a flipline with saw on a lanyard than on a ladder.

Trev

bobby big wood · Jul 11, 2006

DeanBrown3D said:
I am about to take down a tree for a friend and its been dead for at least 2 years now. Half of one side is eaten away by something, on the lean side, to around 5 feet tall, then it appears solid and untouched. I was going to fell it by cutting just above this point, where it seems to be solid.

I guess I want to know how many years dead makes a really dangerous tree throughout.

Thanks

Dean

if its leaning in the direction you want it to fall then do not rope it! If the rotted side of the tree faces, as you say in the direction you wish to fell it, then put a shallow gob into the rotted wood of a fifth to a quarter of the trees overall diameter. then do your felling cut leaving 3 times more hinge than you would healthy wood. Use felling wedges to send the tree over and be on your toes all the time monitering the trees reaction...

BlueRidgeMark · Jul 11, 2006

DeanBrown3D said:
I may stand on a step ladder. Its not going to fall back, the lean is too strong.

I'm no pro, so maybe I should just stay out of this, but I know it's awfully hard to sprint away when your starting block is a ladder.

DeanBrown3D · Jul 11, 2006

Thanks all, its all good stuff to consider. I'll try to get a pic, but I dunno if the owner has a digi cam, and I wont be there any time soon. It seems solid enough though. I think the owner said its been dead only a couple of years.

clearance · Jul 11, 2006

Dean just fall it, undercut, backcut, look up, maybe have a spotter who can give you a tug, have a couple of decent escape paths. Sometimes dead trees break up as they are going over, beware. Do not stand on a freakin ladder, best wishes.

1CallLandscape · Jul 11, 2006

clearence, well said....Dont even try to stand on a ladder while cutting . your just asking for trouble. Pictures would definately help in defining the remedy to this tree.

my advice is : put a rope on it with light to medium tension, do your face cut , if the tree is large enoughf and you are experienced do a bore cut leaving a larger hinge than normal ( 1"/ 12" diameter) this will give you a pretty good indication on how rotten the inside is. load'er up using two wedges and cut the back piece of your tree.....boom she should come right down.

-mike

DeanBrown3D · Jul 11, 2006

Ok I cant get a pic. The front of the tree (meaning when its leaning 5 - 10 degrees and where I want it to go) is eaten 1/2 way through by something and there's a large scar there now. This is centered on exactly where I would normally cut at a comfortable position, scar maybe 3-5 feet high. Above there its solid and fully round. Diameter is around 20-22".

So if I dont use a ladder, do I reach up to 6 feet with a 460 overhead, or cut it in the middle of the scar? I could bore cut just behind the center of the scar leaving a couple of inches, and work backwards? Its leaning but I don't think it will barber chair if I do this.

clearance · Jul 12, 2006

Don't be doing that bore stuff, no need, its not a real leaner cause it only leans a little, like most trees. Put in the undercut at a comfortable level, probably waist height so you can look up. Make sure your saw is full and sharp, that you are wearing all your ppe and that you have somewhere to run. The tree will go the way it leans, they always do unless they are interfered with (dutchman for example). Look up as much as you can, especially on the backcut, nice to have a spotter. Sprig has good things to say as well, try not to intellectualize this too much, it isn't rocket science, do what works.

BlueRidgeMark · Jul 12, 2006

Can you cut BELOW the scar?

squisher · Jul 12, 2006

Absolutely do not cut above the suspected weak point of the tree. As the tree hinges over this could cause it to fail below your cuts. As I'm sure most on this sight have done I've killed more than my fair share of trees and generally if it's still standing their will be enough strength left in the tree to atleast fall it with the lean with a properly done undercut and backcut.

DeanBrown3D · Jul 12, 2006

So a small wedge in the middle of the scar, and then regular back cut? Sounds like a decent plan. The only hesitation is that I would normally only wedge in around 1/3 to 1/2 of the width of the tree, and the scar is already 1/2 way through.

How to know if a dead tree is safe to fell?

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