step by step photos of my VT hitch

skwerl · Jan 15, 2006

It's been a long time since we've had a good, solid thread on advanced hitches. I've read several requests lately from newer members wanting detailed pictures of some specific VT setups. I had the pleasure of Tree Machine's company yesterday and he took several pictures to document my hitch as I showed it to him.

First off, I want to specify that my first experimentation with advanced hitches was with the Distel. I used it for about 5-6 months before going to the VT. The longer I used the Distel, the more often it locked up on me. I got to where I could only use a new tres cord for about 1 day before it got too grabby. By simply switching one crossover, I turned my 4-1 Distel into a 4-1 VT and all of a sudden life was good.

I also started out using 5/16" New England Sta-Set (a double braid polyester) which has a tensile strength of 3000#. I later switched to 3/8" because it wasn't as grabby and didn't get as hot on fast descents. 3/8" Sta-Set has a tensile of 4200#. With 5/16", I cut it 42" and my eye-to-eye length was about 23.5". With 3/8" cord my eye-to-eye is about 25". I cut it about 46" before melting the ends and tying my double-fisherman's knots on the ends. I spend a couple minutes tightening the double-fisherman's knots, pulling alternately from either direction until the knot no longer moves or rolls. After that I leave the eyes tied permanently.

Here's a link to another post where I showed the Distel and double-fisherman's knots. http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=363904&postcount=2

skwerl · Jan 15, 2006

Here's the last steps of tying and setting the hitch. The last picture (#33) is simply a visual reference showing the length of my tres cord against a 2' wide piece of plywood.

Everyone here is welcome to copy and share these pictures for non-profit use and education.

SteveBullman · Jan 15, 2006

thats the same ammount of wraps and braids i use skwerl, only difference is on my braids the tail coming down from the top goes over rather than under the braid. i might tryit your way about tomorrow and see if it males any difference

skwerl · Jan 15, 2006

Stephen,
With the top tail coming down and over, it basically makes all the wraps and braids go in the same direction. With use it will continually twist your lifeline. In fast descents it will twist so badly you need to stop and shake out the twists in order to descend. By bringing the top leg down and under to form the braid, it helps alternate the twisting action caused by the wraps. No more lifeline twist!

rahtreelimbs · Jan 15, 2006

Thanks Brian...........we need a thread like this!

SteveBullman · Jan 15, 2006

rahtreelimbs said:
Thanks Brian...........we need a thread like this!

yeah its been brought up a hundred times but a hundred more wont harm!

thanks brian, i'll try that tomorrow

Chucky · Jan 16, 2006

stephenbullman said:
yeah its been brought up a hundred times but a hundred more wont harm!

There have many, many posts on AS and others sites as well regarding advanced hitches, but I think those seeking good, solid information on them, as well as finding good illustrations of them by searching the archives will have been disappointed.

I’ve scoured the arboricultural forums myself seeking informative posts on advanced hitches using the keyword “hitches,” and 300 posts and 4 days later I've found myself in a thicker fog and deeper quagmire than what I was in in the first place. At best the results have been disjointed and unclear, at worst contradictory, and confusing.

Until now. At last, a most excellent, concise, and illuminating advanced hitching post by the redoubtable Sciurus floridanus and the inimitable Arborus machinus.

tophopper · Jan 16, 2006

Hey great thread rocko!

Intersting hitch!

Ive played and toyed with countless varations and dont think Ive ever tried that one.
So do you prefer the 3/8 versus the 5/16?

and when climbing, does it require" setting" or will it most definatley grab when let go?

tophopper · Jan 16, 2006

and do you ever have any troubles with the one leg of the tress(the DFL) sliding down the spine of the carabiner?

skwerl · Jan 16, 2006

hey Tophopper,
I guess I got lucky with this particular combo. The cord makes a big difference. I tried other cords and most were too stiff. The Sta-Set is quite supple but holds up remarkably well. It's soft enough to always grab whenever loaded but has just enough stiffness to maintain it's shape and release easily. I never could understand why every picture I've seen of a VT had so many braids. They do nothing but add more slop to the hitch.

I used the 5/16" for quite a while thinking it was 'faster' and 'more responsive' but soon figured out that it was actually too grabby and the cord got too hot and melted every time I made a fast descent. The 3/8" has a much more 'refined' feel and is easier to control when manipulating descent speed. And since there is more rope for distribting friction heat, it doesn't melt as easily as the smaller cord.

The double fisherman's eyes cinch down on the biner so they don't slide around. I use the regular mini pulley instead of the red Fixe pulley because it allows the tres cord eyes to stay closer together and centered in the biner. The Fixe pulley was a PITA for me and required using the Williams biner, and the eyes sometimes wanted to slide off to the side with that setup.

tophopper · Jan 16, 2006

For me, getting the braids just right is the key. If you get them just right they function just like a spring and help push the coils upward. I like the overall shorter length of that hitch compared to a trad vt. To me it seems if you can tie it as short as possible the hitch is more responsive, the trade off has always seemed to be the potential to lock down.

Im gonna give your hitch a go tomorrow and see how it works for me although I wont be using stayset.

Heres a pic of a variation I toyed with a 5:2

skwerl · Jan 16, 2006

Wow Dan, that was a while back. I was still using a buttstrap saddle and a steel clip on that old style lanyard! Once the changes started, it didn't take long for me to completely reform my climbing style and techniques. Ask Craig Jabs (rborist1, Alberta Arborists) if he recognizes that t shirt!

GlennG · Jan 17, 2006

Rocky,

Do you use that VT for your climbing line or your lanyard...or both?

GlennG

Redbull · Jan 19, 2006

I used a VT today on TreeJunkie's setup using Beeline for the VT on a Blaze climbing line. I'm definately going this direction with my friction hitch. It was a very responsive knot.

Redbull · Jan 19, 2006

I've been wanting to try the VT for a while now, but didn't have an opportunity. Thanks TJ!

Fireaxman · Jan 22, 2006

skwerl said:
... I never could understand why every picture I've seen of a VT had so many braids. They do nothing but add more slop to the hitch.

All the picts I saw of the multiple braids behind the VT were what steered me to the Knut. Now that I understand it works fine with just 1 braid I'll try it. The Knut is working great (much better than the Blake's I had been using) but if you tell me the VT is better still, I'm paying attention.

skwerl said:
... The 3/8" has a much more 'refined' feel and is easier to control when manipulating descent speed. ...

I use the regular mini pulley instead of the red Fixe pulley because it allows the tres cord eyes to stay closer together and centered in the biner. The Fixe pulley was a PITA for me and required using the Williams biner, and the eyes sometimes wanted to slide off to the side with that setup.

Knuts! Dont you know I just bought the 5/16 and Fixe last week! So busy playing with it I didn't notice this thread until tonight. You are right of course. I noticed the problem with the pulley immediately.

Anyway, thanks very much for the thread. Especially appreciate the details on lengths and micro pulley.

tophopper · Jan 22, 2006

Fireaxman said:
All the picts I saw of the multiple braids behind the VT were what steered me to the Knut. Now that I understand it works fine with just 1 braid I'll try it. The Knut is working great (much better than the Blake's I had been using) but if you tell me the VT is better still, I'm paying attention.

Knuts! Dont you know I just bought the 5/16 and Fixe last week! So busy playing with it I didn't notice this thread until tonight. You are right of course. I noticed the problem with the pulley immediately.

Anyway, thanks very much for the thread. Especially appreciate the details on lengths and micro pulley.

Scroll back up and look at the pic of my hitch....

the petzl fixe works just fine for a tending pulley, just simply put the one DFL inside the ears on the pulley and problem is solved. I use a petzl fixe on a williams biner and still have enough room for both DFL's, the fixe, and termination end of climbing line.

John Paul Sanborn · Jan 22, 2006

Mine is somewhat similar, but I've found that if you braid so that the end coming down from the top is trapped by the one on the bottom, the hitch will be less likely to drop a turn.

I also tie off to the becket of a Fixe' puley. I tends to be a bit more persnickety then

both ends to the carabiner.

(my camera is at my folks house so maybe someone else has a pic of the hitch)

properly tuned I have to tie it so that the carabiner end comes off the top wrap, and is allways braided on the bottom.

I'm still climbing on the hank of KM-III rescue that Brian sent me 2 years ago (well not the exact same piecs, it just lasts me a long time)

Gumneck · Jan 22, 2006

tophopper said:
For me, getting the braids just right is the key. If you get them just right they function just like a spring and help push the coils upward. I like the overall shorter length of that hitch compared to a trad vt. To me it seems if you can tie it as short as possible the hitch is more responsive, the trade off has always seemed to be the potential to lock down.

Im gonna give your hitch a go tomorrow and see how it works for me although I wont be using stayset.

Heres a pic of a variation I toyed with a 5:2

School me. Is this safe practice in using one link for both ends of the rope? I can't see why not safe but thought I'd ask to be sure. Can't be too sure on rope right?

tophopper · Jan 22, 2006

Well sure its safe, its probably safer than using 2 biners to terminate, IMO

step by step photos of my VT hitch

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