Water cooled chainsaw chain exelent

Matildasmate · Oct 2, 2007

Water cooled chainsaw chain was mentioned on another thread and I tried it today on my setup , cutting up the last of this years Blackwood logs , a small 4' log . I slapped up a real rough water cooler to try it out , works bloody great , chain stays cool , almost no stretching and shrinking , you can touch the chain immediately after using it , I need to come up with a better dripper or a flat spray to control the dust better , the water actually works well also , as a lubricant , as well keeping the chain clean . A mate of mine asked me about White Blackwood , which is the sapwood , I ended up with a peice today , white one side and normal the other . Cheers all MM

BobL · Oct 2, 2007

Are you using the water as well as, or instead of an auxilliary oiler? Water will cool the chain and bar and lube a bit but provided you don't overcook the bar/chain I can't imagine it protecting the bar - chain interface from wear as much as oil because water has a much lower viscosity than oil and is instantly squeezed out from the chain-bar interface whereas the oil will hang around a bit longer.

I have tried using just a one handed pump spray unit to put water onto the chain (but not in place of the aux oiler) to keep it cool and it worked fine. It didn't help keep the red gum from gumming up the chain but maybe I waited until the stuff had baked on and I was too late. I was thinking a small garden backpak hand pump might be the way to go with the water cooling but hey, why not just connect up a hose direct? Humm - might give that one a go.

Maybe if your aux oiler is already just a dripolator type (ie drips onto the chain) most of the oil gets flung off and doesn't get to the bar/chain interface anyway. Then water may be better because it will at least keep everything cooler?

Anyway - I'd like to see how you go in the long run with your bar/chain wear.

Cheers

Rodney Sinclair · Oct 2, 2007

Over on the Logosol forum, they had a tread going a while back about using water. Got some pictures of how it's built and rigged up. Most are made with PVC pipe and caps. Even got a parts list.

Rodney

Matildasmate · Oct 2, 2007

Lube

BobL said:
Are you using the water as well as, or instead of an auxiliary oiler? Water will cool the chain and bar and lube a bit but provided you don't overcook the bar/chain I can't imagine it protecting the bar - chain interface from wear as much as oil because water has a much lower viscosity than oil and is instantly squeezed out from the chain-bar interface whereas the oil will hang around a bit longer.

I have tried using just a one handed pump spray unit to put water onto the chain (but not in place of the aux oiler) to keep it cool and it worked fine. It didn't help keep the red gum from gumming up the chain but maybe I waited until the stuff had baked on and I was too late. I was thinking a small garden backpak hand pump might be the way to go with the water cooling but hey, why not just connect up a hose direct? Humm - might give that one a go.

Maybe if your aux oiler is already just a dripolator type (ie drips onto the chain) most of the oil gets flung off and doesn't get to the bar/chain interface anyway. Then water may be better because it will at least keep everything cooler?

Anyway - I'd like to see how you go in the long run with your bar/chain wear.

Cheers

Hi Bob......... I don't use an auxiliary oiler , the oiler on me chainsaw is enough lube , I was originally interested in the dust control , the cooling , cleaning , lubricating are all a bonus , I put it at the tip first , that was hopeless , so I have set it up right next to the powerhead , much better , but will get better . This setup took me about 20 minutes to make for a test run . I wanted to see if it was worth a crumpet before I invested too much effort in it . Your right about the hose though , I read an article elsewhere , where a bloke used a hose , so next step hose and more flow plus a mini spray instead of dripper . hopefully this controls the dust a bit better . Cheers MM

Matildasmate · Oct 2, 2007

Pvc pipe setup

Rodney Sinclair said:
Over on the Logosol forum, they had a tread going a while back about using water. Got some pictures of how it's built and rigged up. Most are made with PVC pipe and caps. Even got a parts list.

Rodney

Hi Rodney ........ Yeah I had a look at that and also another bloke was using a garden hose , so I am gunna go with the hose , because I don't intend to shift me mill again , I recently moved my mill to another smaller shed I was'nt using , all the dust in my big shed was starting to piss me off , me big shed is 100' x 35' and the dust was travelling up to 50' covering everything . Cheers MM

carvinmark · Oct 2, 2007

I mix about 10% dish washing soap with mine, it works great and cleans most all of the pitch off too.

BobL · Oct 2, 2007

I just realized I already have 2 holes (one on either side) at the end of my bar but only use one for the aux oiler at any one time which means the other could be used for cooling. Here is a plan that I'm thinking of trying.

The direction of the water jets could be arranged to blast the chain in an outward direction on both sides. Also a 1/4 circle slot could be used instead of holes.

Cheers

Mad Professor · Oct 2, 2007

BobL said:
I just realized I already have 2 holes (one on either side) at the end of my bar but only use one for the aux oiler at any one time which means the other could be used for cooling. Here is a plan that I'm thinking of trying.

The direction of the water jets could be arranged to blast the chain in an outward direction on both sides. Also a 1/4 circle slot could be used instead of holes.

Cheers

I bet that could be connected nicely to a 2-3 gallon comercial water sprayer to provide both pressure and a resivour for the water.

Matildasmate · Oct 2, 2007

Dish washing liquid

carvinmark said:
I mix about 10% dish washing soap with mine, it works great and cleans most all of the pitch off too.

Yeah Mark Sounds like a good idea , just hav'nt worked out how to get it into the hose mate :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:........Yeah in the container setup would be great , not sure what effect it would have on the bar oil . Cheers Manfred

Matildasmate · Oct 2, 2007

Should work as a chain cooler

BobL said:
I just realized I already have 2 holes (one on either side) at the end of my bar but only use one for the aux oiler at any one time which means the other could be used for cooling. Here is a plan that I'm thinking of trying.

The direction of the water jets could be arranged to blast the chain in an outward direction on both sides. Also a 1/4 circle slot could be used instead of holes.

Cheers

Yeah should work as a chain cooler , I just had mine dripping on the roller nose area to start with , worked no problem for cooling , but useless for dust control , yours should be an excellent cooler , I shifted mine to the powerhead so it would hit the sawdust as it come out of the log but without a spray instead of just pouring it on the bar it was (ok at best for dust control) worked well for cooling . Out of curiosity what program are you using for your diagrams , I use AutoSketch 8 , works well , but am always interested in new drawing programs . Cheers MM

BobL · Oct 2, 2007

I'm milling outside mainly with green wood and usually on the west coast we have a breeze in one direction or the other so dust is not usually a problem for me. I'm more interested in using the water cooling to reduce the buildup of resin on the chain which on some of the gnarly red gums and tuarts I've milled. The resin buildup can double the amount of fuel needed to get through a slab. I've tried various things but this one sounds like the best solution so far.

RE; Drawing program. I'm just using the draw tools within PowerPoint. I started using PP back in 1994? and got plenty of practice using it for preparing lectures so now I find it the quickest thing for me to whip up sketches with. I then do a screen capture of the bit I want and convert it into a compressed jpg using a graphics program.

Matildasmate · Oct 3, 2007

Windy

BobL said:
I'm milling outside mainly with green wood and usually on the west coast we have a breeze in one direction or the other so dust is not usually a problem for me. I'm more interested in using the water cooling to reduce the buildup of resin on the chain which on some of the gnarly red gums and tuarts I've milled. The resin buildup can double the amount of fuel needed to get through a slab. I've tried various things but this one sounds like the best solution so far.

RE; Drawing program. I'm just using the draw tools within PowerPoint. I started using PP back in 1994? and got plenty of practice using it for preparing lectures so now I find it the quickest thing for me to whip up sketches with. I then do a screen capture of the bit I want and convert it into a compressed jpg using a graphics program.

They set up windmills near here , its been blown a gail here for the last few days , it gets really windy here this time of year (more than normal). I will have to check out powerpoint drawing .The water really works well on the resin buildup , chain stays real clean , you get minor amounts of resin on the side without direct water supply , I will take a couple of pics of the chain for you , I cut a full log with it , plus the other added benefits , lubrication , cooling and some dust control . Yeah I always try to cut green timber , I think your design , with water going on both sides of the bar , should be excellent , another flash BiL mill design mate , looking forward to pics of it working . Cheers MM:hmm3grin2orange:

Matildasmate · Oct 3, 2007

Pics of bar after cutting full log with water cooling

BobL said:
I'm milling outside mainly with green wood and usually on the west coast we have a breeze in one direction or the other so dust is not usually a problem for me. I'm more interested in using the water cooling to reduce the buildup of resin on the chain which on some of the gnarly red gums and tuarts I've milled. The resin buildup can double the amount of fuel needed to get through a slab. I've tried various things but this one sounds like the best solution so far.

RE; Drawing program. I'm just using the draw tools within PowerPoint. I started using PP back in 1994? and got plenty of practice using it for preparing lectures so now I find it the quickest thing for me to whip up sketches with. I then do a screen capture of the bit I want and convert it into a compressed jpg using a graphics program.

Here's the pic's Bob of bar , after cutting full log with water cooling. Cheers MM

BobL · Oct 4, 2007

Matildasmate said:
Here's the pic's Bob of bar , after cutting full log with water cooling. Cheers MM

Thanks MM - looks good!

Found a bit of brass rod to play with this evening and made up that cooler connection to the bar. The connection bolts to the bar in the unused aux oiler hole and squirts out over both side of the chain. Instead of holes for the water exit onto the bar I went for simple slots cut with a fine kerf metal cutting blade. Plenty of water seems to come through even though its only a 3/32" hole running down the middle of the bolt.

With Labels

With hose turned on just a touch.

Another view

Close up

I can't really try it until Saturday - will report back later. If it's successful I'll make a more precise one on the lathe, maybe with on board flow control.

Cheers

martrix · Oct 5, 2007

Crikey, so does all this mean I can completely bypass an aux oiler when I make up my new mill, and just go with the water lube? Would be heaps cleaner.....

BobL · Oct 5, 2007

martrix said:
Crikey, so does all this mean I can completely bypass an aux oiler when I make up my new mill, and just go with the water lube? Would be heaps cleaner.....

Humm, I'm reserving judgement here until I see for myself. I think for a long bar an aux oiler will still be helpful in extending the life of your bar and chain.

The main aim of my water cleaner is to keep as much resin off the chain when milling really gummy wood like red gum. Hopefully this will reduce the load on the motor, reduce fuel consumption and cut quicker. My set up has the water squirting over the outside of the chain as the chain approaches the nose, then the chain goes around the nose and reaches the aux oiler hole which delivers lube in the bar groove to get between the chain and the bar. Water blows crap off, aux oiler adds a bit of lube.

There will also be situations where water is not available so an aux oiler will be a really god idea then.

Well that's the theory, beer time tomorrow will be an interesting review time of the practice.

Cheers

BobL · Oct 6, 2007

Water cooling

Tried out the water cooler/luber/thingo today.

Benefits:
- Definitely reduces dust.
- Keeps the chain and bar very clean
- Seems to reduce strain on the engine - uses slightly less fuel
- Can touch chain and bar immediately after turning of engine
There's a perception that it cuts faster but I won't really know until I try some really resinous logs.

Drawbacks
- Have to remember to turn off the water when finished or one side of the ground alongside log turns into a quagmire (see picture), it's opposite to the milling side and should be much less of a problem in summer.
- Uses water - not much just a slow drizzle seems to be as effective as a full jet, which then covers everything withing a 3 yard radius in wet sawdust.

Am I going to use it again? YEP, If I have access to I a hose then I think it's a winner. I'm planning to build it into my normal operations setting up a close by flow control instead of running back and forth to the tap etc .

Sorry no close up photos, will see if I can organize a movie for next week - not that there is much to see.

For now I'm leaving my aux oiler on but I have reduced it to use around half its normal oil output.

:cheers:

Matildasmate · Oct 6, 2007

Less drag

Yeah sounds like a winner Bob . Yeah I noticed there was less drag to , can't say I noticed any difference in speed , csm's aren't real fast anyway eh , I also should have said in my original post , that the lubricating effect on the chain was actually basically what you said Bob , that the water actually keeps the chain clean , stopping it gumming up and acts as lube on the chain through the log , between the chain and timber surface's , rather than chain and bar surface's , it is definitely not a chain oil replacement . Should be good during summer , should keep the bar and chain a lot cooler . Look's like I will have to do some work on mine now? Doe's anyone have rough time's of ft a minute for their csm?

aggiewoodbutchr · Oct 7, 2007

This is on my "TO DO" list now. It seems the idea has potential. Keep the progress reports coming.

opcorn:

BobL · Oct 7, 2007

RE; Water cooling. I have to say I was very skeptical whem MatildasM mentioned it first but my brief experience has been very very promising - thanks MM

bowdown: ).

For stationary/fixed CSMs I think its gonna be a real winner especially if a hose connection is nearby .

In terms of Alaskan mills, If there is no water supply handy my guess is that some people may not liked the idea of an extra weight of a water reserviour on their mill, or even the alternative of a hose attachment. The hose connection didn't bother me much and I think it will be a matter of getting used to it - I think its a better way to go than a water reserviour. There are certainly a few variables to test like, how much water is required, where's the best place to inject the water, is a pressurised deliver needed or will a dribble work just as well etc.

The dust level seemed to dropped quite an bit and it is interesting to see the saw spitting out clumps of damp sawdust in both directions compared to the usual chips and dust. It reminded me a little of the difference between milling a freshly cut down tree versus one that had been allowed to dry out a bit.

Cheers

Water cooled chainsaw chain exelent

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