Tough Day Milling Elm

My buddy and I showed up at the milling site this AM, there was a couple of elm logs for us. One about 8' long the other about 10'.

I arrived first and started peeling the bark on one of them. It was one of the most tenaciously attached barks I have ever tried to remove.



My buddy arrived second and so had to debark the larger piece, which also had a promising looking crotch at one end. I was hoping that I could mill one and he could mill the other, so we would get a lot of milling done. Unfortunately, it was not to be. I got 3 slabs pulled off of the smaller log, but to use the 60" mill on the larger log took both of us to manhandle.

Notice as well what a lovely day it was. Unusual for Vancouver in November.





We got three of the crotch slabs. It was one of those days where there just seemed to be an awful lot of time spent on setup. Debarking, sharpening, changing powerheads, trimming, etc. Six and half hours for two guys to get six slabs is hardly a good day's work. I am so disgusted about it that I may go back tomorrow and try to peel a few more slabs off to make it seem worthwhile. I am sure I can get another ten slabs out of what's left. I also hate to let it go now that so much time has been spent getting them all set up. The rest of the cuts will be pure gravy.

Also, the larger log was spalted, it had a crazy pattern in it.

Wow, clear and sunny in Vancouver at this time of year. Same here. What happened to the La Nina moisture ?

Nice wood, thanks for the pics.

mtngun said:

Wow, clear and sunny in Vancouver at this time of year. Same here. What happened to the La Nina moisture ?

Nice wood, thanks for the pics.

Click to expand...

I agree!

Amazing place to mill and you got some great looking slabs. Looks like you had to walk the plank to cut that giant crotch. Arrrr!

Despite the headaches, that still looks like it was still a great day out.

Nice weather, beautiful place, problems to sort out, great looking wood. Hey I see you also have serious shade to mill in as well!

Re: Debarking, I'm seriously thinking about a portable angle grinder with a tungsten carbide chopping type blade. One of the nicest blades I've seen is this one from Arbortech but there are similar ones out there. On that website there is a vid including a couple of seconds showing how they just mince their way thru dirty bark.

With an angle grinder I would just do a line along where the the chain is going to cut.

That's a good idea! Just debarking the part where you need to cut would save a lot of time/effort. Perhaps you could set up some type of height-adjustable carriage that runs on the guide board and has an arm that hangs over the edge where the grinder is secured. All you would need to do would be to turn the grinder on and push the carriage along. Eyeballing it consistently by hand would be too tough I think.

Or you could be more extreme and affix it to your mill - I guess you'd need one on each side of the mill actually - so it debarks as you cut!

For me, there's no power available there so I'll have to stay low tech. Most logs I find I can debark in a reasonable amount of time. For others I think there are debarking tools called spuds that might do it for me!

Salty Logs?

Daninvan,

Question...

Have you or anyone else found any problems with logs you have milled that have been waterlogged in salt water?

I have a friend who has a piece of wood he recovered off of Bikini Island. He has tried to using the wood for various projects and found that any steel type of fasteners begin to rust very quickly.

Since your logs are pretty far North, I'm sure the salt content in the water is much less than the waters around Bikini Island. My friend also told me that you cannot eat any coconuts that come off the island because they are radioactive.

jerry-

No, I haven't experienced problems with salt in wood. But to be honest most of the trees that I mill there (despite it being on the beach) have never touched the ocean, they are street and park trees that the city dumps there.

That being said there are miles and miles of log booms all over the BC coast, the logs are in salt water, but not for a long time I don't think. The wood is used all over the world without complaint.

Maybe it's a function of how long a piece of wood has been in the water, and the species too perhaps?

I probably would not have picked up a piece of wood off Bikini myself, of course that is where atomic testing was done in the 50's so the coconuts (and probably the wood too) there will be radioactive for a while I imagine.

I do sometimes wonder about urban trees, if they collect toxins from the air/ground/water in cities and if any special precautions should be taken with them. I do use a respirator when I mill, not sure what else might be required.

Daninvan said:

No, I haven't experienced problems with salt in wood. But to be honest most of the trees that I mill there (despite it being on the beach) have never touched the ocean, they are street and park trees that the city dumps there.

That being said there are miles and miles of log booms all over the BC coast, the logs are in salt water, but not for a long time I don't think. The wood is used all over the world without complaint.

Maybe it's a function of how long a piece of wood has been in the water, and the species too perhaps?

I probably would not have picked up a piece of wood off Bikini myself, of course that is where atomic testing was done in the 50's so the coconuts (and probably the wood too) there will be radioactive for a while I imagine.

I do sometimes wonder about urban trees, if they collect toxins from the air/ground/water in cities and if any special precautions should be taken with them. I do use a respirator when I mill, not sure what else might be required.

Click to expand...

I'll try to find out exactly what type of wood he has. He worked on Bikini for years as a scientist. I do remember him telling me the trees actually grow in the water so I can see they would absorb salt from the sea over time.

I to were a respirator when milling. That fine wood dust is not good on the lungs, and respirators are cheap insurance.

Thanks
jerry-

Great pics Dan.

Daninvan said:

That's a good idea! Just debarking the part where you need to cut would save a lot of time/effort. Perhaps you could set up some type of height-adjustable carriage that runs on the guide board and has an arm that hangs over the edge where the grinder is secured. All you would need to do would be to turn the grinder on and push the carriage along. Eyeballing it consistently by hand would be too tough I think.

Click to expand...

It would be easy enough to make a simple height adjustable fence for a cordless angle grinder that you run down the side of each log . Good battery powered ones are not cheap but two batteries would easily cover a days milling

An alternative I just thought about is making one that attaches to a 50 cc CS and uses the arbortech head. Could be a fun project!!!!!

Too many projects and so little time . . . . . .

Debarking

Anyone tried a shock collar? yuk yuk yuk:greenchainsaw:



(ok, now someone should push me down the stairs)

Nice log. Looks like its worth another trip.

They make a debarker. https://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=49600&catID=9763

I've used it and it works pretty good when the blades are sharp.

betterbuilt said:

Nice log. Looks like its worth another trip.

They make a debarker. https://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=49600&catID=9763

I've used it and it works pretty good when the blades are sharp.

Click to expand...

Sure but the cut is overly wide (and as a result slow) compared to what is needed for removing just enough bark for the chain not to have to cut through dirty bark. What we need is a cut that is about 1/2" wide and cuts through up to ~4" deep bark in a single pass. 4" is a hard ask but 2" or 3" cut should be possible

I'm now thinking;
a 6" dado type blade on the end of a CS bar :jawdrop:
or
a single 6" carbide tipped blade running at a slight angle to create a 1/2" wide cut.
or
dual carbide tipped skip chains (offset so no 2 cutters are touching) running on a 9" bar.
or
single carbide tipped chain with CS bar on angle running on 9" bar.


Anyone else got any ideas.

How about a cut saw? It might be a bear to handle.

I am not sure that cutting/grinding is the right way to go. I know when doing it by hand, it's a lot easier to try and peel it off. Some like cedar will peel off in long pieces, but even tough ones, if you get the axe into the cambium you can often pry a little piece off.

Peeling/prying also will leave the edge of the slab less mangled than if you grind it, which is useful if you want to use the slab whole rather than cutting it up.

I'm thinking some kind of thin (like 1/2" as Bob suggests) bladed tool, more like a hoe, that you push along and peel the bark off. It might require a couple versions depending on the thickness of the bark.

Dan

Elm is wonderful, we had a humongous old elm tree which, when I was a teen, my father gave me the privilege to split for firewood, by hand.

Daninvan said:

I am not sure that cutting/grinding is the right way to go. I know when doing it by hand, it's a lot easier to try and peel it off. Some like cedar will peel off in long pieces, but even tough ones, if you get the axe into the cambium you can often pry a little piece off.

Click to expand...

The problem with this for me is the bark is rarely straight and getting it to come off in straight strips is near impossible and I end up having to remove all the bark see below.

I'm thinking some kind of thin (like 1/2" as Bob suggests) bladed tool, more like a hoe, that you push along and peel the bark off. It might require a couple versions depending on the thickness of the bark.

Click to expand...

I ground a sharp edge on the end of a 2ft long 1/2" piece of hardened steel which I tried to use in conjunct with a wooden mallet to try and peel off strips of bark but in the end I used it more as a lever to strip of all the bark. This takes too long.

Peeling/prying also will leave the edge of the slab less mangled than if you grind it, which is useful if you want to use the slab whole rather than cutting it up.

Click to expand...

Yep - I understand that. I have an idea that incorporates a dynamic depth adjuster that would allow the operator the ability to change the cut depth as they walk along the log but bark depth is generally pretty irregular so even that wouldn't be a guarantee you wouldn't hit the sapwood. OTOH there is probably no need to remove 100% of the bark. Even if 50% of the bark was remove that would probably represent 90% of the grit and sand

gemniii said:

Elm is wonderful, we had a humongous old elm tree which, when I was a teen, my father gave me the privilege to split for firewood, by hand.

Click to expand...

Had you done something wrong that he gave you such a fun chore?

jerry-

820wards said:

Had you done something wrong that he gave you such a fun chore?

jerry-

Click to expand...

When I was in grade 4 elementary my dad gave me £5 to pay the monthly butchers bill - in those days we bought meat from a butcher who gave us credit as long as we paid every month. That much money was also a substantial fraction of Dad's weekly take home pay and muggins here lost it! My penalty was I had to split up 5 tons of firewood using a standard axe (not even block splitter). The wood was not your namby pamby straight grain stuff but gnarly Aussie hardwood. It took me a month of working after school and on weekends. In the end my dad helped me chop up the really tough stuff. Boy could I chop hard wood after that - and can still do so today

BobL said:

When I was in grade 4 elementary my dad gave me £5 to pay the monthly butchers bill - in those days we bought meat from a butcher who gave us credit as long as we paid every month. That much money was also a substantial fraction of Dad's weekly take home pay and muggins here lost it! My penalty was I had to split up 5 tons of firewood using a standard axe (not even block splitter). The wood was not your namby pamby straight grain stuff but gnarly Aussie hardwood. It took me a month of working after school and on weekends. In the end my dad helped me chop up the really tough stuff. Boy could I chop hard wood after that - and can still do so today

Click to expand...

Did your Dad go to school or something near Poughkeepsie,New York and grow up with my Dad? They sure did think alike (most of my friends dad didn't do things like that).

And was that a short ton or a long ton?

And I think my privilege was granted because I bet my father I could split a cord by hand quicker than he could. So it was a lesson in learning to define things. He split birch and maple.