Help Identify Mystery Conifer (big Pics)

A bunch of these logs showed up at the cutting area recently. I need some help figuring out what wood it is.

The pieces are about 2 1/2' in diameter, but not very long unfortunately, they were cut into shorter lengths to make them easier to manage I guess.

I don't know if it is a native species or not. As you can see it was quite happy growing here though, the growth rings are up to 1/2" apart. I estimate the tree was only about 60 years old.

A couple people suggested fir, but I am pretty sure it is not any local fir species. Douglas fir is common locally but this is definitely not Doug fir.

The sapwood was originally lighter than the heartwood, the sapwood has stained an orange-y colour as it sat there.

It does have a very distinct aroma. It's a pleasant smell, to me it smells "dry" if that makes any sense. Now that the logs have been sitting for a while, there is a very distinct element of peach or mango in the smell.

The branches are sparse and huge.

My only other guesses are cedar of Lebanon or sequoia? I couldn't find any info on if sequoia has a smell.

I've attached a picture of the log, the end grain, and the bark.








Thanks!

Dan

White pine?

Looks like hemlock to me.

Thanks for the ideas guys.

White pine, I am still researching that one.

Hemlock, I'm not so sure. Hemlock's odour is described as "slightly sour when wet - odourless when seasoned". This wood has a very distinctive smell. Also, that there is little difference between the heartwood and sapwood colours, but this piece has very different heartwood and sapwood.

Keep those suggestions coming!

Dan

The orange color crosses several rings. If it were sapwood, wouldn't it be parallel to the rings ? I'm thinking it is a stain.

I don't recognize the bark. Way too thin for ponderosa.

Not Hemlock
Could be Larch
The middle picture looks like it might be sappy?
Any odor that you can describe?

could be cedrus...deodar or possibly atlantica

Your bark shot sure looks like doug-fir but not the wood. Hemlock maybe? Its not a western larch and bark is wrong - not in Vancouver ...and not White pine either.

I bet a beer on Hemlock!

Interesting!

Another strong vote for hemlock, but, respectfully, I remain skeptical. This wood seems just too aromatic for it to be hemlock. Not a hint of sourness, more like a fruity sweet cedar to me, maybe closest to Port Orford cedar smell.

I'm still thinking it might be cedar of Lebanon. The barks of deodar and atlantica are too smooth for this chunk to be either of those.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/dendrology/syllabus2/factsheet.cfm?ID=851

Larch? I am not familiar with that at all, but the few pictures of larch's bark that I've found on line don't seem to match well.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/Dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=214

I'll try and go down on the weekend and get a better end grain shot, that might help. There are several other pieces, perhaps I can get a better bark shot as well. I can also cut off a piece so we can see more than just the end grain.

Thanks for the ideas!

Dan

Im going to agree with larch as a possibility, and a spruce, or fir also.

Coulter Pine maybe, the guts look right, but the bark is a little off.

RPM said:

Your bark shot sure looks like doug-fir but not the wood. Hemlock maybe? Its not a western larch and bark is wrong - not in Vancouver ...and not White pine either.

I bet a beer on Hemlock!

Click to expand...

Well I won't challenge that bet! I think that's probably right. Either that, or I'd guess a Norway Spruce yard tree given the silvery outer bark and reddish inner bark (though not as scaly as I would expect on a Spruce), combined with the very wide growth rings that are common in heavily watered yard trees. Though, even the "wild" trees down your guys' way are heavily watered compared to our yard trees up here! The fact that it has center rot helps the Hemlock hypothesis - they're not known for their rot resistance.

I'm 100% sure it's not Larch, for a few reasons. One is that 30" diameter is a HUGE larch; not to mention that they aren't native to the Vancouver area so it would have to be a yard tree (and even then wouldn't be too happy about it), and Larch won't grow that big in +/- 60 years no matter what. Another reason is that Larch bark has very large, loose scales not unlike Shagbark Hickory and such; though the bark coloring on this log are about right for Larch. This log's bark has more of an "alligator-skin" texture that Hemlock tends to get. Finally Larch wood is a quite distinct reddish-orange much like Douglas Fir; they're even graded together because the woods are so similar. On that note, it's definitely not a Douglas either for largely the same reasons.


I'm not terribly familiar with most of the True Firs (Grand, Noble, Amabilis etc.), the only one I encounter here is Subalpine Fir and that log is definitely NOT one. It's possible it's a Silver/Amabilis Fir though - the ecology is right, and Amabilis is graded together with Hemlock because the woods have similar strength and appearance characteristics. Having never seen one closer than at the side of the highway as I drive by though, I can't say for sure. Nor have I ever encountered any of the True Cedars, so I can't help with those either.

Get me a nice smooth cut (or better yet planed) board from that stuff and I can tell you if it's Hemlock or not, especially if there are some knots. Hemlock does have what I consider a fairly pleasant odor; others can't stand it, so I wouldn't recommend putting too much stock in the smell description to make it a significant determining factor. Mind you, Subalpine Fir doesn't bother me much either and I quite like it once it's been through the kiln, but it comes by its "cat piss wood" moniker honestly.

mtngun said:

The orange color crosses several rings. If it were sapwood, wouldn't it be parallel to the rings ? I'm thinking it is a stain.

Click to expand...

It is a stain; it's just the sap oxidizing as it's exposed to air. The transition from active sapwood to heartwood usually follows the growth rings but it doesn't necessarily have to, especially on an irregular, fluted piece from near the stump like this appears to be. Since the cells receive their nourishment vertically, there's nothing saying that a sapwood cell must die and become inactive just because its lateral neighbor does. If it's still needed to deliver food to the crown of the tree it'll remain active. If you were to cut through half the diameter of a tree, the sapwood below the cut will die just the same as above it, because there will be nothing to draw the sap up through it anymore. Like punching a hole in the middle of a straw - you can't even suck your beverage up as far as the hole, let alone above it to your mouth.

Western hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla).

I can tell by the bark texture, but that's just from looking at thousands of them. The purple inner bark is indicative though. Heart rot is very common as well.

That sucker probably weighs 150 lbs. I pity the groundie who had to manhandle that beast (probably out of someone's backyard).

Which company's yard did it come from?

The only true firs one would find inVancouver would be Grand fir- Abies grandis. The other true firs inthe Vancouver area, but occuring at higher elevations (North Shore mountains - Grouse / Cypress Mtns.) are as Brad mentioned A. amabilis and A. lasiocarpa - which smells like cat piss when cut and dry.

I'd maybe through a vote for Grand fir behind the Hemlock. I know that the smell is oftena good inidcator but until AS gets a scratch and sniff method on the site we will just have to go with your description. Obviously, foliage and fruiting bodies (cones) are always the best definitive ID tool.

Yep if the cones hang towards the ground, it's Hemlock; if they point to the sky it's one of the Firs.

OK I went down and took a few pictures this morning. Unfortunately it had been raining so everything looks a bit different than it does dry.

First let me thank everyone who has thrown suggestions into the ring. I'm learning a lot digging up info the different trees.

I am pretty sure it is not a pine, the bark is not pine like at all. Also, while the only true firs native to this area are as RPM stated, this is not necessarily a native tree. It is without a doubt a city tree from a public park or boulevard, so could be native to any temperate region of the world.

First are some more shots of the bark. The first two are pretty wet, the third one is mostly dry.







Here's a shot of the end grain, I scrubbed it a bit with a plane so you can see that the reddish stain on the sapwood is just that. The heartwood is on the left, the lighter sapwood is revealed where the stain is planed off in the middle, and the stained sapwood is on the right.



Here are a couple up close shots of the end grain that I cleaned with a sharp block plane. I am not an end grain reading expert, and the fact that the wood is wet seems to make it more difficult (at least to me!). The growth rings are about 1/2" apart. The plane marks are at about 45 degrees to the growth rings, which are more or less vertical in the pictures.





One other feature of this tree that I failed to mention last time was that the branches are huge relative to the size of the tree. You can see in the first shot that the branch is close to half the size of the trunk, and it is growing straight out at 90 degrees from the trunk.

Mystery wood .... With branches like that are you sure its a conifer? There doesn't seem to be a lot differentiation between the spring and summer wood on the growth rings?

You are right, it could be a non conifer. It was mainly the pungent smell that made me think it was a conifer and I kind of locked into that thinking.

There are some needles stuck in the bark in various places but that is not a definitive sign for sure! Also, I could not see any sign of pores in the end grain. Hardwoods have pores and softwoods don't. But again, not definitive, they could be hard to discern as the wood is wet, or just too small to observe in the photos. (I also can't really tell if there are any resin canals either.)

Dan

The bark does kinda look like hemlock, but im not so sure thats what you have.:dunno: