Lanyard release prototype update...

hobby climber · Jul 26, 2005

Re: www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=18524 * Well, its been the better part of a year since I began working on this idea of a lanyard release system. Its been getting mixed reviewers every time I mention it. Late last year I had a prototype made and sent it to Buckingham & Sherrill. Both found the release system interesting and that it did in fact work but passed on it due to liability issues, (as anticipated)! Their concern is ..."what if someone used it as the only tie in without a safety line?" An understandable concern for a manufacturer or supplier. But what about the arborist who finds themselves in a "situation" that could use such a devise??? They now have to come up with something on there own or take a greater risk to get the job done. Those who have been in such a situation would appreciate this thing and those who haven't may bock at it. Ether way my reason for pursuing this idea was for the benefit of my fellow climbers with their safety in mind. Have a look at some of the old threads and the video clip and let me know what you think. Also, some of you had shown some interest in the past and if your still interested, let me know, I can have more made and send it to you to experiment with. (At your own risk of course)! HC *** Another related post: www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=17416

hobby climber · Jul 27, 2005

I think it boils down to money. This product would not be a mainstream item for the industry to invest in. There would not be enough return for their investment in developing it further! IMO. The manual section is a modified three ring parachute cut-a-way release system. The auto section is nothing more than the hardware you see with a piece of break tape that is made to break at 500 lbs, (in this prototype). You can use what ever strength break tape you wish for your specific needs. The auto section in my design is protected by two pieces of webbing to keep the break tape protected. The black sock over it holds the shape and keeps everything clean inside. I'm not crazy about the auto section because over time wear & tear will effect the break strength of the tape. As far as the manual section goes... I like it! Small, simple, proven system in skydiving for many years, etc. Ya got to admit, it sure beats uncliping your lanyard and hanging on to the snap while working in risky situations. In my setup, you don't unclip. Just hang on to the pull handle and give it a tug if you have to escape in a hurry from a failing tree or tree section. Keeping in mind that your tied into a different tree or structure with your climb line. HC

Lifesabeach · Jul 27, 2005

I like it.

Definitely for the experienced climber, and for use under certain circumstances.

R Schra · Jul 27, 2005

Lifesabeach said:
I like it.

Definitely for the experienced climber, and for use under certain circumstances.

to much i think, if you are expierenced and have those certain circumstances you KNOW how to anticipate on such situations. If you lack anticipation in this kind da work you get hurt anyway. I did jump chutes in the army and even with serious training on pulling the reserve a lot of guys having troubles at 10.000 feet were not able to pull the reserve. They were saved by that extra safety that pops it when pressure drop , airspeed? goes to high. From the 12-15 spins, twist or crossed lines i watched happen only two were able to pull reserve.

I dontlike carrying to much hardware up a tree. its going to much to check and double check so a mistake change increases.

Jim1NZ · Jul 27, 2005

I would be sooo keen to give it a go! I have seen a guy in Aussie snatch out a 100 foot top of a 300 foot Eucalyptus, he had a break away lanyard and was roped into a Eucalyptus beside the one that he took out. He simply made his cuts and as it started to go, he pulled the cord and swung away. I may be slightly exaggerating but i can tell you i wouldn't be keen to be in that tree even though the mechanical lowering system was super smooth.

Jim1NZ · Jul 27, 2005

Its great to see new systems being developed! Well done mate

Tree Machine · Jul 27, 2005

I, too, appreciate innovations and tend toward boiling things down to the least common denominator.

I've been climbing mainstay on a prototype system for over 10 years, weaved in and out of other conventional systems so I have a full awareness of advantages and disadvantages of one system over another. I tend to be very critical of all, including my default rig, to remain unbiassed and fair in judging performance.

Your advantage is clear, but at the expense of a 'created' disadvantage. Your steel-core flipline has been compromised by adding a non-steel bridge. A light touch with a Silky can release you, and we all know there are plenty of guys, still, that don't follow the 'tie in twice' rule when making a cut. A simple mistake will send this guy plummeting backwards out of the tree. Hitting your device accidentally with a chainsaw, same result.

Personally, I think the thought and effort toward developing and testing has been magnificent. I encourage you to keep the innovative juices flowing. We appreciate your sharing with all of us. There's still a lot of improvements that are not yet in existence.

Tree Machine · Jul 27, 2005

It's never going to get by ANSI Z133.

Never.

That's the fact, Jack. Regardless of how much we might like it, if Z133 does not approve the testing, and the rigorous critiquing is not bombproof, the device is not accepted industry-wide.

When you release to the market a device on which a man's life is going to hang, the device has to meet all the standards, or exceed them. ANSI creates these standards to make sure only the safest gear reaches our saddles. But if you invent it, I suppose you can climb on it all you want.

Glad to know that you are being safe as a way of being.

kf_tree · Jul 27, 2005

dude

your a day late and a dollar short........but i do applaud you for trying.

i guess you missed my last post on this about 6 months ago.

https://ecomecs.securesites.com/cgi...98-35889&WSC1037031288-18053&1030729481-63795

kf_tree · Jul 27, 2005

after checking out your little video's..... my hats off to you. great effort

R Schra · Jul 27, 2005

kf_tree said:
dude

your a day late and a dollar short........but i do applaud you for trying.

i guess you missed my last post on this about 6 months ago.

https://ecomecs.securesites.com/cgi...98-35889&WSC1037031288-18053&1030729481-63795

Thats a gear safety to break it from youre harnas.

So again for that item we started with,

I rewatched the videos. I just think that this device on the clip end of the lanyard is to difficult. Clipping in on the side D ring is a good fixed point for easy acces. With that piece between it takes two handed to find that little O ring to attach. If a sytem would do i prever it i ques or imbedded in the saddle/harnas or on the right hand side near the reglex/prussik.

hobby climber · Jul 27, 2005

I realize that this thing will never be ANSI approved. After reading a post over a year ago, I started thinking out loud and drawing some ideas on paper. You may recall some of the pics I posted but then had Darin remove the post thread because I thought I may have been on to something. An old sky diving buddy of mine, who is a certified para rigger, made a prototype for me at my request. The three ring release system is a time tested proven one thats still in use today on parachutes. The auto section is break tape that can be purchased in a variety of break strength and configured to the users needs. As far as the aesthetics go... I was going to leave that up the the company that would be developing the system further. Since that is not to be, I just have the first prototype in its original form. When I first saw it, I realized it was to long with both systems,(manual & auto) together. In one video both are used on the same side, In the other, just the auto section. Personally, I like the manual on the left side and the auto on the right. My right hand is my saw hand so the manual pull is on the left, naturally! It can be attached to the right or left or both together. The best part of the three ring release system is that it WILL release under a heavy load. Because each time a ring overlaps over the previous one, less strength is required to hold the load. Its simple! HC

hobby climber · Jul 27, 2005

TreeCo, regarding your question of the breaking strength on th auto (pull handle) section... Its been made to break at 500lbs. It can be made to hold over 6000lbs as far as the web material is concerned but the steel rings are rated at 2400lbs. They do make stainless steel rings and hardware that is stronger but I don't know what the strength is at this time. I had the prototype made with one steel ring rated for 500 lbs on the manual side. Its the ring that the lanyard snap clips into, the others are at 2400lbs. My reason for this is the concerns that if one end is released, the lanyard could get hung up in the tree as it collapses. If both sides are at the same breaking strength then it wouldn't matter which side was released first. That was my logic at that time, I think I would rather have a much stronger manual section in the future. HC

hobby climber · Jul 27, 2005

One other thing to mention, and it would also take Tree Machines concerns into consideration. While the release was being reviewed by the manufacturer, I thought of a bypass for the release. This can be done simply by attaching a carabiner from the lanyard snap to the saddle "D" ring while the release is still in place. This way your safety is not compromised till you remove the carabiner once in position. Then after your done that technical part, simply re attach the carabiner and your good to go again. I'm sure that there is a better configuration out there or a better system for that matter! This is just what I came up with at the time. All the material used in the release can be found in the Para Gear catalog at: www.para-gear.com Let me know what cha think!

Anyone still interested in this thing??? HC

kf_tree · Jul 27, 2005

R Schra said:
Thats a gear safety to break it from youre harnas.

So again for that item we started with,

call it what you will......but i'd be willing to bet it's to be put on a lanyard, they say it's for gear to avoid the liability and osha etc. personaly i'd rather have a break away than a rip cord. because when the ???? hits the fan i'd rather not be fumbling for a pull cord.

hobby climber · Jul 27, 2005

Hey kf_tree, if all you want is just an auto break away, just go to the Para Gear web site that I mentioned and order the break tape and sew it into a loop,(or loop at each end). Attach break tape to saddle "D" with a choker and clip lanyard snap to other end of loop. You now have an auto break away and the break strength depends which spool of tape you buy! Just use a carabiner to bypass the set up and remove it once in position! Remember, if you sew the tape into a continuous loop you will have doubled its breaking strength, FYI.

HC

Jim1NZ · Jul 28, 2005

I'm still keen.

There would be situations where you could predict what is going to happen, the device then could come into its own. For example, snatching a massive head, why would you be in the tree if you can simply rip the cord and swing completely out of danger and into a neighboring tree?

hobby climber · Jul 28, 2005

Jim1NZ, Exactly my point! Keep in mind that... 1-you would be swinging away from a bad situation to a neighboring tree. And 2-you would be swinging INTO a neighboring tree (ouch)!!! But it sure beats the alternative!

Jim1NZ · Jul 29, 2005

That was a controlled swing i would hope

hobby climber · Jul 29, 2005

That would depend what you tie your safety line to!

Lanyard release prototype update...

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