10 degree Down angle ? on Full chisel chain

[Jeff Lary]

I have, just last weekend at a yard sale picked up a nib Oregon File Guide. It looks like my Granburg other than this one looks a little cheaper lots of plastic. Anyway I was just reading the info that came with the Oregon as I was given the Granburg without any paperwork.
It says here that if you run full chisel which I do you should file at a 10* down angle. Just sitting here thinking about it , it would seem to me that an up angle would make more sense? I would have to go look at the Granberg but I think it is set for 30* (and at zero up/down angle I know for a fact ). I was wondering if you are using full chisel what angle,... if you know do you use? As far as that goes how about angle advice for frozen wood as well. I am mainly talking about Hardwood in the above question... but I also cut some saw logs on occasion too. So a softwood angle might be interesting as well. Thanks Jeff

 

[Full Chisel]

The angle should slope up towards the chisel point. It really depends on the chain though, for instance Oregon LGX calls for a 10* angle but Still RS calls for 0*. The general rule for full chisel chain is to use a 10* angle though. I get RS very sharp with a 0* angle using a Granberg.

 

[Jeff Lary]

I looked through Google and there are many references to Down angle? The Oregon instructions say "Set the filing angles according to Manufactures instructions ,(eg) for Square cutters use 30* top plate angle with a 10* down angle on the file. For round cutters make the file level, file down 10* for square cutters.
I know there are recommended angles for hard wood and for soft wood as well as un-frozen and frozen wood I need to looks up the angles for the heck of it.
I have hand filed all my life I learned when I was about 16 from a friend of mine. About 2 years ago a friend of mine gave me a Granberg and I have used it some and like it. My next learning curve will be to take a chain and find the shortest cutter than set the Granberg or the Oregon to make all the teeth that size I have never tried that.

 

[Jeff Lary]

I went to the Save Edge web site and found a place here that sells their files. I have always used Prefered files but want to try something new.
Its about 100 miles from me but I was in the area today so I stopped by. I wanted a file for my Stihl full chisel 3/8 chains. I told the lady at the counter that I wanted a 7/32nds file, She said most people prefer the 13/32nds as they fit the tooth better. So I bought two of them and a 25 thousands raker gauge as well.
Before I left I went out into the shop and saw a Partner 5000 plus on the bench. I own a few of them so I asked about this one. It starts up with a squirt of mix but will stall if you turn it pto side up. So I asked for a price he said $60 I offered $50 and it came home with me. This winter I will put in a set of seals and whatever else it may need . I really wanted a project i am always looking for a P100 but no luck so far.

 

[SawTroll]

The angle should slope up towards the chisel point. It really depends on the chain though, for instance Oregon LGX calls for a 10* angle but Still RS calls for 0*. The general rule for full chisel chain is to use a 10* angle though. I get RS very sharp with a 0* angle using a Granberg.

I have settled for something inbetween, on both Oregon and Stihl - but then I mainly file freehand, watching closely.

 

[Wood Doctor]

I have settled for something in-between, on both Oregon and Stihl - but then I mainly file freehand, watching closely.

Sounds like a compromise. That's worked for me for years. Then again, I tried a 10-degree down angle grind with an Oregon 511a last week after reading Philbert's thread on the issue. It worked very well.

 

[SawTroll]

Sounds like a compromise. That's worked for me for years. Then again, I tried a 10-degree down angle grind with an Oregon 511a last week after reading Philbert's thread on the issue. It worked very well.

Holding the file at the right higth is more important than the exact angle - and keep the focus on the point and edges.

 

[computeruser]

I always did the 10* when I ground, but I sold my grinder and anymore I either freehand or use that nifty Stihl handheld filing thingee. I think the 10* setting can produce a faster chain than 0*, based on my dabbling with round-ground race chain back in the day. But for a work chain, honestly, I'll go with whatever sharpens back up in the field faster, which for me is 0*.

 

[MustangMike]

Stihl RS does specify the 10 degree angle, which is higher toward the cutter. Just follow the original grind and it will be obvious.

Semi Chisel s/g filed level, but not full chisel.

 

[lambs]

I do not think Stihl recommends the 10° angle anymore. I stopped using it on my grinder. But the angle is measured from the inside of the cutter to the outside or the point. Why that was called down I do not know because you file up towards the point

 

[Full Chisel]

Stihl RS does specify the 10 degree angle, which is higher toward the cutter. Just follow the original grind and it will be obvious.

Semi Chisel s/g filed level, but not full chisel.

The RS I have lists a 0* angle on the box...

 

[Philbert]

I think that they call it a 'down angle', because you drop the handle of the file down from 0° (0r 90° - depending on your reference). Old 'rule of thumb' was to use it on full chisel chain, and not on semi-chisel chain. Oregon's recommendations have changed (see recent charts below).

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/FilingAngles.pdf

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/GrindingAngles.pdf

Some grinders allow this down angle, some don't. As I understand it, the Husqvarna roller guides have this angle 'built-in'. The flat, Oregon and STIHL guides are only supposed to be used at 0°. Your Granberg and Oregon clamp-on guides allow you to dial the 10° in. Just keep this in mind if you go back-and-forth between different types of sharpening, or grinders, or filing guides.

As far as frozen wood . . . ? You might want to try one chain sharpened each way, and see if it makes a difference to you, and if it is worth the additional effort. In my experience, it more metal is removed when changing angles, including the 'down angle', than when just touching up the edges. So you might want to consider separate chain loops optimized for hardwood, softwood, frozen wood, etc.

Philbert

 

[MustangMike]

I'm positive that I have boxes of RS that show the 10 degrees, but I have not purchased any since I started using square, so if it changed, I'm in the dark.

Also, I have never used a guide.

 

[Jeff Lary]

Ok so when they say down angle they may mean that the file handle is pushed down, thus the file tip is tilted up. The whole down angle thing sounded confusing to me.
I mostly hand file and I do ok I think but I have also learned that there in a whole bucket load of stuff that I don't know. I know there are different ways to file depending on the type of wood and frozen vs thawed. I just want to maybe mess around with the down angle and a 13/64ths instead of the 7/32nds. I do know that the 7/32nds does seem very tight in my full chisel chain so maybe the 13/64ths will be a better fit?

 

[weedkilla]

I seem to naturally fall into filing at about 5 degrees in the field, so I set all my chains to 5 degrees in the shed.
I get a more consistent chain, which is more important to me than having exactly correct angles.

 

[SawTroll]

I'm positive that I have boxes of RS that show the 10 degrees, but I have not purchased any since I started using square, so if it changed, I'm in the dark.

Also, I have never used a guide.

If it has changed, it has changed the other way, as I recall it.

 

[Del_]

When hand filing the tooth leans over a bit with the pushing of the file. I try to keep the file axis parallel to plane of the top plate such that if the top plate were a breaking wave.........it would have the same round ground contour along its full face.

 

[SawTroll]

If it has changed, it has changed the other way, as I recall it.

I found a 25RSC box from 2008, the recommendation was 90 degrees = zero degrees in this context.

RSC is what now is called RS, same chain, different designation.

 

[Jeff Lary]

P.S My Save Edge files that I bought well they are not save edge they are Stihl. I called them back and they will exchange them for me all I have to do is drive a hundred miles easy peasy $%^*** ......

 

[MustangMike]

I'd use the mail!