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What is the difference between 3/8 and .404? Take a saw like an 066 with 32" bar. What performance difference is there between the two?
3/8 vs .404
- Thread starter rahtreelimbs
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JimL
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have run 066's for a while now. One of them i rebuilt had a 28" 404 setup on it. I also had anothern with 28" 3/8 setup on her.
Side by side the 404 cut ruffer(word?) and slower. It did stay sharper longer it seamed. 66 didnt have enuf umph to spin the 404 as fast in the cut...
Side by side the 404 cut ruffer(word?) and slower. It did stay sharper longer it seamed. 66 didnt have enuf umph to spin the 404 as fast in the cut...
logcutter429
ArboristSite Operative
Idon't about performance,but back in the early 80s when i run my 2100 husky i tried 3/8 and it kept breakin it,so switched to 404, no problem,but ole pete in northern calif. liked it cause it give you more tooth to file.
don
ArboristSite Guru
404 vs 3/8
I run a 32 inch bar on a 066 that has been ported and the muffler modified.
I run 46RSF Stihl Rapid Super Full Chisel Full Cut and it is one fast chain.
Used to run 404 Oregon round full cut and it was much slower.
I even run the bar with an 8T sprocket and have no problems.
There was a debate about this on a previous string
No one had times on it as compared 404 to a 3/8 chain.
3/8 is more popular than 404
404 is much heavier and stronger chain
The only valid argument I could make in support of the 404 is it costs more to make so why not get the industry to go to a smaller chain that is cheaper to make and wears out faster?
Also, if you have the power pull the bigger chain.
I run a 32 inch bar on a 066 that has been ported and the muffler modified.
I run 46RSF Stihl Rapid Super Full Chisel Full Cut and it is one fast chain.
Used to run 404 Oregon round full cut and it was much slower.
I even run the bar with an 8T sprocket and have no problems.
There was a debate about this on a previous string
No one had times on it as compared 404 to a 3/8 chain.
3/8 is more popular than 404
404 is much heavier and stronger chain
The only valid argument I could make in support of the 404 is it costs more to make so why not get the industry to go to a smaller chain that is cheaper to make and wears out faster?
Also, if you have the power pull the bigger chain.
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
i ran 3/8 0.50 72 lg on every thing except the 3120's i used a 404 on them i think it was 23A. it was what baileys suggested when i ordered the saws from them (3120) so i just ran it and never questioned it. that chain would blow through nails and still cut like a champ.
don
ArboristSite Guru
Hey JimL
Are you running an 8T or 7T?
My 066's have no problem pullin a 404. What isthe condition of the clutch?
Are you running an 8T or 7T?
My 066's have no problem pullin a 404. What isthe condition of the clutch?
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was hoping, too, to see some performance opinions regarding the diff. between the two, but I suppose one would have to try to compare the same types of chain, example Oregon super 70, etc.
I have a 20" hardnose bar that fits my Jonsereds saws, and I used .404 chipper (Carlton) once in a great while if I had to cut real dirty wood. My dealer suggested it, and while my puny little Jons 670 didn't set any speed records cutting with it, I could work for a reasonable period of time without stopping to file. Sometimes on muddy wood, you can't even get to the end of a tank of gas with chisel chain.
I have a 20" hardnose bar that fits my Jonsereds saws, and I used .404 chipper (Carlton) once in a great while if I had to cut real dirty wood. My dealer suggested it, and while my puny little Jons 670 didn't set any speed records cutting with it, I could work for a reasonable period of time without stopping to file. Sometimes on muddy wood, you can't even get to the end of a tank of gas with chisel chain.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Im running 404 on my 088KD, it blasts thru the wood real nice, but then on the other hand, my saws are much stronger than anyone elses wood saws, cause mine rocks out at 14,500 and 73.357 hp., so get that inta ya eh!
Gypo
Gypo
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
A Stihl 066 with an 8 tooth sprocket will not run a 404 chain with any efficiency at all ,unless you want to make a career out of watching the chain go round. If you want to run 404 on an 066, why not save yourself the effort and run 3/8 on an 044, it will cut faster. 7 pin is the only way to go unless your cutting softwood or using an 088 or 3120
Gypo
Gypo
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Sorry, forgot the off topic picture, but it's not for the squeemish.
Gypo
Gypo
don
ArboristSite Guru
Well Gypo that is what I am running
Contrary to Gypo's experience with an 066 mine runs the 404 just fine with an 8T. Don't have a problem at all. Could it be the chain, I use or what? 46RSF.
I consider Gypo a much better and proficient logger than myself. Maybe I should be cutting bigger logs. Cut 20 to 40 inch cedar and fir with it the other day and worked pretty good.
I guess I should get it the 066 remodified to put out 55 HP since your 088 has 73HP!
Hey where does the second turbo gauge go?
Contrary to Gypo's experience with an 066 mine runs the 404 just fine with an 8T. Don't have a problem at all. Could it be the chain, I use or what? 46RSF.
I consider Gypo a much better and proficient logger than myself. Maybe I should be cutting bigger logs. Cut 20 to 40 inch cedar and fir with it the other day and worked pretty good.
I guess I should get it the 066 remodified to put out 55 HP since your 088 has 73HP!
Hey where does the second turbo gauge go?
don
ArboristSite Guru
Hey JIML
Have you made any mods to the saw, muffler, ports, filter ... etc?
Have you made any mods to the saw, muffler, ports, filter ... etc?
HUSKYMAN
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you were cutting firs and cedar.
Gypo is cutting almost all hardwood and you're cutting mostly softwood. Big difference there
Gypo is cutting almost all hardwood and you're cutting mostly softwood. Big difference there
don
ArboristSite Guru
JIML you should do some simple MODS
I think a simple modification you can do is open up the muffler a little. So here say it gives up to around 20% increase in power and lowers the temperature of the saw thereby extending its life.
Do you have a single or dual port muffler?
Search past strings using 066 muffler and you get strings like this
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4456&highlight=066+muffler
Two other modifications I made was to go to the 46RSF chain and synthetic mix.
I think they all helped.
Yeh I cut mostly softwood, some hardwood but in this county hardwood is "protected" unless it is deseased or dead. I cut some California Oak with this bar combination and it worked. I keep the chain very sharp. It seems to me the chain 46RSF I use keeps a sharper edge than the Oregon I was using.
Huskyman and Gypo do you think the mods made (muffler, fuel, chain) are the difference I can use a 8T on a 32 inch bar?
I think a simple modification you can do is open up the muffler a little. So here say it gives up to around 20% increase in power and lowers the temperature of the saw thereby extending its life.
Do you have a single or dual port muffler?
Search past strings using 066 muffler and you get strings like this
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4456&highlight=066+muffler
Two other modifications I made was to go to the 46RSF chain and synthetic mix.
I think they all helped.
Yeh I cut mostly softwood, some hardwood but in this county hardwood is "protected" unless it is deseased or dead. I cut some California Oak with this bar combination and it worked. I keep the chain very sharp. It seems to me the chain 46RSF I use keeps a sharper edge than the Oregon I was using.
Huskyman and Gypo do you think the mods made (muffler, fuel, chain) are the difference I can use a 8T on a 32 inch bar?
tundraotto
Addicted to ArboristSite
sinking a 32" bar with an 8T and .404 in a 28" hardwood stem will bog a 066 down in a very serious way. If this is not the case I am in the market for your 066. Seriously, I think the diameter and the hardness of the wood is the deciding factor here like mentioned before. The mods help out alot but wont make the difference in this scenario.
dbabcock
Hi Tech Redneck
My 3120 came from the factory with a 7 tooth .404 sprocket. The first time I put it to the wood, the thing just sat there with the chain stopped and the engine reving. I brought it back and they found this out and changed sprockets to a 3/8. I guess with bigger bars maybe the stronger .404 would be better, but as for staying sharp longer, I think I'd rather give 3/8 a 45 second tickle a little more often and cut faster
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
I think Drugless Grabcock and Tundralux said it perfect. I believe using 404 on an 066 would be much like using 1/2" pitch on an 088, or using 3/8 pitch on an 017.
Gypo
Gypo
dbabcock
Hi Tech Redneck
Or, to add to what Glazeboy just said, 1/2" round backwards on a David Bradley or as tire chains on a skidder. I think I'm going to bring some of my 1/2" to Washington when I go there in a week or so and John can bring his 017 with 3/4" harvester chain to Manchester at the same time. My guide bar is bigger than his though, plus I have a roller nose with a trout head mask replica.
