A point to ponder

[Al Smith]

Did it ever cross any bodys mind that perhaps some of us old die hards were right?Myself,Oz,Z4,Macdaddy,to name just a few.Do you suppose the golden age of chainsaw metrics was about 1979.What,other than anti vib ,has improved?If so,show me!Yep,perhaps a tad faster,no more grunt,less.Not one thing has improved,if so,speak up.What then,horsepower? I have a Mac super 44A,5.3 cu inch,6.5 Hp,top that,in 2005.Speak up,all ye nay sayers,I'm all ears[hmm,Ross Perot said That ]

 

[MacDaddy]

I would like to get a real hp rating on a sp 125 and see if the big 2 can beat that

 

[Lawn Masters]

You know Al, I have to agree on this one, its so true. modern saws are all high revving machines, not high torque units like the Macs. which is why these are good milling saws. now if someone made the homelite 2100 again, all would be well with the world for us power cravers.

 

[pbtree]

They are different, but I do not believe they are any worse - they just take a bit more finese to keep running correctly.

Of course, I find that the newer units are not enshrouding me with as much two stroke mix when they run! 50:1 seems to be the norm now more so than back then.

 

[Al Smith]

Well ,Mike,that's another subject.Those wizards at SAE,decided to change the rules about 1969,I would think .perhaps, this would apply to small engines.Oh,by the way,it seems to be a lot earlier in Cal. than it is in Ohio.What kind of a deal is this.Then again,old Oz seems to be a day ahead of us all.I'm somewhat confused,pay no attention

 

[Al Smith]

You know Al, I have to agree on this one, its so true. modern saws are all high revving machines, not high torque units like the Macs. which is why these are good milling saws. now if someone made the homelite 2100 again, all would be well with the world for us power cravers.

Here I go speculating again.If,perhaps,a person could mill the area out around the primary ports of a 125 Mac,and put that giant Homey carb,with the 6 pedal reed,what would be the outcome.? That big old Hl carb has a 7/8" venturi.If I'm not mistaken,the largest,unless a Hr or Harley HD.It's only conjecture on my part,but perhaps feasable.

 

[MacDaddy]

yes it is and it works very well i have some modded macs like that and I also have some vantech reeds that have a extra port for that side and those run strong

 

[MacDaddy]

this is what Im talking about

 

[spacemule]

Vibration damping and chainbrakes seem to be better now than previously. Both of these are important considerations. Power and speed aint everything.

 

[ozflea]

True the days of the old reed valve engine is now long gone with chainsaws and we certainly miss their torque characteristics, i mean for a supposive 12.5 hp out of a SP125c the weight was good, old technolgies worked well but the engine's design has been around since 1956-58 as the D-44 was the for-runner to the later Mc's who used the same basic engine design then of course Karting stepped in an utilized the D-44 which lead to the many Kart engines which peaked in the mid seventies showing just how much power can be generated out of a well thought out engine.

Sure the big Mc's suffered a few design sortcomings but mostly through those who choose not to keep a few basic tools handy.

In the eighties we were to see the introduction on a large scale of electronic ignition which removed one item from most servicing on saws but regardless of what brand you own no saw is perfect as many diccussions on this forum show.

With the introduction of plastic components into the main stream of saws many of us have knocked the technology that has brought lighter weight and better damping of vibration and this technology is here to stay regardless of what we say on this or any other forum, the second side to plastic is the advantages it offers to manufacturers faster production you can make redundant all the spray painters as plastics are precoloured which doesn't chip and hold a longer lasting colour finish.

Past days were the good old days but they won't return ya can bet you last dollar on that one.

All they do nowdays is rehash old ideas and try to re-invent the wheel.

Mc Bob.

 

[Lawn Masters]

Yeah Bob, you got that right about re-inventing the wheel. from where I sit, its already been built, and improved upon to the best of its ability, so it dont need no more improvment.

here's an idea for engineeers these days, improve the Mac SP125, add antivibe and sell it to west coast fallers and millers. they'd appreciate the king of the forest making its return. Stihl would be in hell cause they wouldnt be selling as many 088s then though lol.

 

[Dadatwins]

Have to add that the older saws were nice but some improvements that have come along have been a blessing both on the ground and in a tree.
#1 would be the weight factor, I started climbing with a 15lb Homelite super Ez that was like dragging a cement block around a tree. Very happy with my 8lb stihl.
#2 Boiling gas in tanks has been reduced with plastic fuel tanks, how many times did you get a gas bath from opening a homelite or mac tank too fast when hot and having gas boil out of the magnesium tank?
#3 better carbs are easier to rebuild with less parts.

One of the biggest mistakes with current manufactures make in my opinion is eliminating manual oilers on the bigger saws, I always liked a manual oiler and think it helped make bars and chains last longer and made cutting easier especially on the big stuff.

 

[Mange]

No doubt there has been progress, but no revolutions.

 

[Marco]

The newer saws use little lanyards on the gas and oil caps more then in the past. Plastic housings do hold up quite well, they will flex some before they break.
I don't think the new ones start as well as some older models and the torque is not there. Reed valves may help torque but I think a horizontal cylinder helped a bit to because an 041 Stihl has no reeds and it's pretty torky.

 

[klickitatsacket]

I totally agree here Al. (To a point) I go to the old saws all the time for numbers and design ideas. In my humble opinion; I think that the McCulloch Super 55 is one of the best 2 stroke engines ever designed. Of course I like to help them along a little. The cost of manufacturing is the reason engine technology has seemed to of gotten stagnate. You can only do so much with out pricing yourself out of business. Things such as direct injection and electronic fuel injection have been developed and work great but the cost of such systems and the fragileness of them do not lend them to chainsaw manufacturing. Once the 2 stroke engine started to reach it's "pinnacle" then the things that matter to the operator became far more important. Things such as weight and anti-vibe. We see the argument in here all the time. Some one wants a saw to cut down 20" poplars and wants to know the best saw. Displacement gets talked about but the real arguments tend to be about anti-vibe, weight and quality. They can not argue about the differences in engine design because there really isn't any. The only room for improvement on todays engines is to go back in time to some of the designs of yesterday. The problem with that is the price would kill sales to the average person and only the hard core would pony up the dollars for such a saw. Hmmmmmmmm.. sort of like why the hard core spend $250 to have a tuner build a saw with the performance of yesterday but with the weight of todays saws.

 

[Al Smith]

Well,alrighty then,got a few opinions,good.I'm somewhat old school but will have to admit that I like the anti vib and weight of the more modern saws.{Shh,don't tell anybody,but I have a few}To know where you've been kind of explains where your at and might point to where you will be going,so to speak in a riddle kind of way.

 

[Ax-man]

I really hate to go against the grain of your thread Al, but I would much rather work with a modern day saw than them older ones. JMO, in addition to all the pluses for operator comfort, maintenace is also easier on the modern day saws compared to the older ones. The older saws are harder to work on and can actually be more complicated than a modern saw.

The older saws are fun to bring back to life and do part time cutting, but I don't think the old saws could keep up the pace with what we have today. A modern saw would win out at the end of the day if you were to pit one against the other for a serious day of cutting wood.

Just my little two cents, for what it is worth.

Larry

 

[Al Smith]

I'll drink to that one.I actually only use my big old war horses for big wood,what they were designed for.Hidden deep in the back of the shed are several lighter yellow saws and a few with orange paint that do a majority of the chores around here.

 

[Lawn Masters]

There aint no shame in havin a few new model saws to cut with, just so long as the old beasts get to see action now and then.

 

[pbtree]

Al, you are a good man!

I have an older saw (A poulan with the Sears Craftsman name on it actually) that was the first saw I ever bought. 60 CC, and of course my newer saws would run circles around it. But I keep that thing running and like to bring it out every once in a while for the nostaligia thing.

I do agree with the statement about the dual oilers. I liked having an automatic oiler with a dual manual oiler on the bigger saws...