Advanced Training

[Climb020]

After I have attended a few shows and did some reading I am left now where to go for more. Many of the classes I see available are just the basics. Where do you go for more high tech. and advanced training. The only thought I have is Arbor Masters but am not quite sure what there course involves. Their online info is not very detailed. Topics I am interested in are climbing, rigging and felling. Also I am looking for some good reading material as well. I have eaten a few books and have been recommended "The Rigger's Apprectice" which I haven't bought yet.
I sure hope they have some good seminars at the TCIA expo unlike the last expo I attended.

 

[Ryan Cafferky]

Going to a week long series of Arbormaster classes was the best investment of time and money I ever made in this business.

I took climbing level 1, rigging level 1, and chainsaw safety and precision felling level 1.

It is a ton of information to absorb so take a pad of paper and write a lot of stuff down.

The class I didn't think I would learn much in is the one I learned the most in. Precision felling.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Here in New Zealand we have plenty! Basic and advanced - climbing, pruning, chainsaws ect etc.

We have what they called aerial engineering, ha its not as intense as it sounds. Simply cranes and helicopters.\

I got the chance to complete a advanced climbing workshop with Beddis Strouser, a four time world climbing champ which i learned plenty from. The top climbers were there also helping out, it was amazing!

 

[Ekka]

Appears way ahead of this place Jim.

Over here you mention helicopter for tree work and people head for the straight jacket.

Oh, I see you can also ride the hook on the crane.

Over here, no way. Coz we have an overindulgence of stupidity from people who have never done the job ... fat cats who know best.

Sometimes the smaller places are the smarter ones and can adapt and change quicker without trying convince 50 politicians who inturn have to influence 500 public servant desk bound idiots.

Good on ya Jim, and I've heard Ozzi arbo's run down Kiwi's, little do they really know do they? They just think we are bigger so must be better ... WRONG!

 

[SRT-Tech]

anything like this in BC, Canada? have'nt found anything really suitable, and i'm REALLY not wanting to pick up bad habits from companies.......

 

[Dadatwins]

This topic comes up a lot, newbies trying the basics, hearing about something better, and want to advance straight to the high-tech stuff. The high tech stuff is nice and it can save some time but I believe in the old -school learn and master the basics and then advance. There is nothing scarier seeing a "high - tech" climber drop a prussic cord and not know how to tie a taut-line or blakes to get out of a tree. Recently watched a ISA tree worker exam and talking to the instructors they said a lot of new climbers have difficulty tieing an attachment knot because of all the spliced eye being manufactured today. They even had a candidate tell them he did not need to know the running bowline and clove hitch, all his rigging was done with steel biners and eye-splices. I am not putting down the new techniques and they are a time saver, it is my opinion that anyone starting out should learn and master the old school techniques before moving up to anything "high-tech" Be careful.

 

[SRT-Tech]

actually i started with the high tech over 8 years ago, i was more looking for old school style....lol so i could have the best of both worlds.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea i agree, i think a climber should master the basics to help the climber fully understand what and why they do what they are doing.

Yea Ekka, here you can ride the hook if you are roped in twice (climbing line to the hook and lanyard into the safety strop). Not all crane contractors allow it, but generally its down to the crane operator's desecration and experience. We will only use companys that are experienced in tree work too.

There are good climbers in Aussie, just the company and climbers ethics are atrocious.

Good on ya Ekka for keeping it real and being professional where the competition is not, i respect that.

 

[Ekka]

There are good climbers in Aussie, just the company and climbers ethics are atrocious.

You hit the nail on the head. Spiked trims, topping and lopping running rampant, climbers with no PPE, door knockers with no insurance or PPE (or brains) etc etc.

I would say, 75% are dodgey.

 

[Climb020]

This topic comes up a lot, newbies trying the basics, hearing about something better, and want to advance straight to the high-tech stuff. The high tech stuff is nice and it can save some time but I believe in the old -school learn and master the basics and then advance.

Totally agree. You should be able to tie any know with your eyes closed and not even thinking about it. Plus I don't quite understand slicing myself. Chances are the ends of your rope wear out faster and you just have to cut them and either re-splice if you can or tie a knot. Seems almost like a waste.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Ha, the more of those sort of fullas around ekka the more accidents and therefor rules and regs that get put in place to control them.

Is that a good or bad thing?

Bad for you, bad for them, good for the industry...how can you win.

 

[moss]

Ekka, the Flash animation in your sig slays me "Not a stagnant lake", what a motto!

I just want to point out that Climber 020 is not a noob (ya'll probably know that already).

It's the tough part of being trained out of school, you can be very advanced and then have some trouble figuring out how to jump into "higher education" without having to wade through all the basics courses.

That is not my problem however (borderline noob).
-moss

 

[(WLL)]

u got 2 learn the basics first

After I have attended a few shows and did some reading I am left now where to go for more. Many of the classes I see available are just the basics. Where do you go for more high tech. and advanced training. The only thought I have is Arbor Masters but am not quite sure what there course involves. Their online info is not very detailed. Topics I am interested in are climbing, rigging and felling. Also I am looking for some good reading material as well. I have eaten a few books and have been recommended "The Rigger's Apprectice" which I haven't bought yet.
I sure hope they have some good seminars at the TCIA expo unlike the last expo I attended.

the best thing u can do is get some experience first no book gives u that. u need 2 start at the bottom first with only 1-1/2yrs i highly doughty u are ready 4 anything advanced yet. face the facts buddy u r still a green horn.
this would make 1 small step for the biz and 1 giant step 2 your death

 

[jefflovstrom]

the best thing u can do is get some experience first no book gives u that. u need 2 start at the bottom first with only 1-1/2yrs i highly doughty u are ready 4 anything advanced yet. face the facts buddy u r still a green horn.
this would make 1 small step for the biz and 1 giant step 2 your death

I agree with WLL, You should go to work with us guys that do it!
Jeff Lovstrom

 

[1I'dJak]

I'm also interested in a taking some advanced rigging and climbing (spurless) courses, but am always wary of paying out money for chit that i already know...I mainly work in the forest industry topping out trees, so not much rigging or spurless there...just learning to get over heights and taking down big hammer tops....and learning this by working for another company is kinda out of the picture cuz the pay is so low....i know the basics of rigging and spurless but would like to dig deeper...i guess here in canada its arbormasters or the equivalent eh?

 

[1I'dJak]

thats very true, but i've forked out money for stuff i've known before or was dissapointed with the outcome...I'm really kicking myself in the ass now because the bc certified fallers ticket costs $9000 now...few years back it was $200, last year it was $600...I'm definetly not afraid of learning stuff though...the guys in the bush bug me about it, giving me the hand of 'college boy' cuz I'm working on a diploma, just got my isa, and have mentioned looking into climbing/rigging classes... does anyone in canada the scoop about these? Is it thru arbormasters?

 

[soutz]

Think that appreciation of those who went before us is underestimated in the teaching process. history like experience is a great teacher. If ekka is right and 75% are dodgey in aus people are not only going to die but the industry as a whole canot move forward.In New Zealand i guess cause it is so small we have to be on to it as there isnt anywhere to hide. New Zealand are also full on with safety gear. I havent seen many companies that dont use safety gear in one form or another. as far as advancing climbing look to rec climbing videos or sites as many of the techniques cross over, same with rock climbing.Rigging get advice from others in the field. watch other companies in action. Courses are great but much depends on the teacher/s. good luck for wishing to improve yourself as a treeworker

 

[Thillmaine]

Arbormaster, Rip Tompkins, etc..

I attended just a short lecture last year by Rip Tompkins ( It hink thats his name) in Utah at the PLANET Student Career days and was impressed. He only talked for about an hour and I was exposed to lots of different techniques on how to climb, rig, fell trees. I dont know about them in Canada, whether they venture up that way or not. Pick up TCIA, usually has flyers in it, or visit their website. Like I said I didnt even go to a workshop or anything, he was just voluntarily giving students a lecture about he field and eposing us to different things and I was very impressed. Hoping to attend some modules in the future, maybe when a company will pay for them. One pet peeve, he is is a Husky man, and very impateitn but extremely knowledgable. Oh, and in case you didnt know, he was the Massachusets arborist association president in the past and was the man who started Arbormaster.

 

[Night Owle]

As far as My own Personal experience , training thru Arbormaster
met and far exceeded My expectations.Have been in the Business
20 or so years (mostly in a B-Truck) and felt I was overdue to
step out on the limbs as it were....
I took Level 1 Climbing in Au 06 and followed that up with
Level 2 in Oct 06.some might say it's a bit $$ but for Me it was
invaluable,would do it again with out reservation.
E-mail me if you want to know more....!!

Night Owle

 

[Jim1NZ]

I have NEVER had a climber who didn't learn something useful while on a practical course here. I haven't done a whole lot of training but i no for a fact my climbers walk away with something that will improve their safety and efficiency in the tree.

If your not getting enough from your tutor, push them for more! Thats the way to learn