Another MS390 being stupid....

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isacguy

You serious Clark?
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
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Location
Missouri, USA
So I have used Arboristsite in the past to help with my troubles, and I love coming here when I'm out of ideas to get some help from the collective mind of this amazing place. Having said that I am a little stumped..... I'm one of those guys that hates clogging up sites with posts, so I try to avoid it. I am however at my wit's end with this saw.

I have a MS390 donor saw that needed an engine. It was blown up, and once I got my hands on another one that a tree had fallen on, I thought I was in business. The guy said it ran great, I checked the compression and the piston looked great through the port. I pulled everything apart, cleaned it, rebuilt the carb. Fired it up, tuned the carb and it ran great. Put a 20" bar with a 3/8 x 7 sprocket on and a sharp chain, and this thing fell all over it face. So.....I replace the impulse line, and fuel line, fuel pickup, air filter, and spark plug. No dice, same issue. So then I pull the muffler off and mod it, to make more room for power, I then re tune the carb with a tachometer, still no power. It can't even cut through a 6" hackberry branch. The saw has strong compression, over 155psi for a stock home owner's saw wasn't bad in my opinion. I pulled the carb off and pulled the welch plugs this time, and put it in the ultrasonic cleaner with heat. Still no difference at all. I've played with the carb all day, I've looked and seen where there were all kinds of troubles from other guys, but it doesn't seem to be the issue I have. I finally broke down and bought a leak down testing kit, and the thing holds pressure and vacuum within specs everywhere, BUT it does blow tiny soap bubbles on the flywheel side during the pressure test, so small that it doesn't even register on the needle. I just found out what the soft seal, and the 2 drivers I need will cost from the dealer. Needless to say, I was pretty unhappy ($66.42). Could a little pinhole like that cause it lose so much vacuum that it has no power? I mean it has less power than a MS170. A MS390 should have no problem with this B&C setup, I don't understand what the problem is. It idles great, accelerates great, it doesn't pop, or have erratic idle, or anything else that I would feel would cause it to have any problems, it just has no power at all when you get into the cut after 2 seconds. Any other ideas? I have an old non EPA carb I thought about trying out, but I just don't think it is pulling vacuum hard enough under a load, regardless of the carburetor.
 
When you rebuilt the carb did you use a brand new kit?

Yes, I went to the Stihl dealer with the Carb, and he looked up the parts kit from his computer. Everything seemed to go in well, and the gaskets and such all matched properly.

I have two new Zama HD-19B carbs in the box I could try one of them.....but I just can't believe that 2 different Walbro HD-21B carbs I used were both bad and have the exact same effect on the performance. I even read one guy on this forum that couldn't figure out his MS290 acting the same as mine, and it turned out he had a little piece of grit under the needle........oh how I hoped that was it when I pulled it apart the 3rd time lol. At this point I'll try about anything though.
 
It isn't uncommon to have two bad carbs. I'm also curious about your chain. Do you file your rakers when you sharpen the chain?

Ok, I feel a little better then about the carb thing, I might just try a Zama one out.

In regards to the chain, I inherited it and it was in pretty bad shape. I used my Granberg bar mounted file guide to get it back in shape, as I didn't want to make a bigger mess of it just doing it by hand. I am not a super experienced filer. So, I set the angles per the manual (30 degrees I think?) and got a nice, clean edge on it. Then since I took so much off to fix the chain, I did use my Stihl raker guide and fix them up as well. When the saw cuts, it throws very nice strips of wood out. It seems to cut quite well, while it is briefly cutting that is. I'll upload a picture tonight.
 
How old is the fuel you are using? Replace with fresh mix if older than a month. I'm not saying your fuel is bad, but that possibility needs ruled out.
 
How old is the fuel you are using? Replace with fresh mix if older than a month. I'm not saying your fuel is bad, but that possibility needs ruled out.

Of course that is an excellent question! I only use premium ethanol free octane 91 or greater, with Stihl's HP Ultra synthetic oil. I actually had to make a fresh batch after this build because I was out. I have used it in several other 2 stroke engines the past month with no trouble at all. So I'm thinking the gas probably isn't the culprit. What is your opinion of the very small leak at the flywheel seal? Could a leak that small be my issue?
 
What is your opinion of the very small leak at the flywheel seal? Could a leak that small be my issue?
I would think since you're in the mood to replace everything on a clamshell saw with new parts that you'd also have included new seals. That bad seal is likely the culprit that killed the saw to begin with.
 
I would think since you're in the mood to replace everything on a clamshell saw with new parts that you'd also have included new seals. That bad seal is likely the culprit that killed the saw to begin with.


Yes I did replace a lot.....but this engine came out of another good running saw that had a tree fall on it. It's engine ran fine I was told before the case got crushed. The original saw did get burnt up, but it was due to straight gas being run through it. I've never done seals, so I was trying to avoid that if possible.
 
I've heard that about the hard seals, of course then I'd have to tear the saw apart again.....I was so concerned about never replacing seals before I just crossed my fingers on this engine. Probably not the best decision in hindsight. I've read about using soft seals that use the puller and press from Stihl. Has anyone ever used these instead with good luck?
 
I was thinking the same thing Harley just mentioned. But I'd change it anyways because it could leak a lot more when the engine gets hot.
You can also take advantage of the opportunity to clean all the built up carbon off the piston and cylinder if you haven't already done so.
If trying another carb doesn't fix the issue then maybe this is something to consider. If the seal or carb isn't the problem then you may notice something else you didn't before.
 
Here is the requested picture of the teeth. All this talk about the chain makes me wonder if it could possible be the issue. I know I have an 18" B&C from a Farm Boss hanging up somewhere....I'll need to address the pitch issue though for that since it is a .325 pitch.....I might try throwing on a carb, but I doubt I'll be that lucky. I was hoping not to tear down the saw again, but oh well, looks like I'll be cracking the case in half. I noticed that the seals are over $20 a piece from my Stihl dealer! That seams a little steep, does anyone have any experience with aftermarket seals? Chaps my butt they charge so much for a seal. Also too, what about the sealant that goes between the base and the cylinder? Any personal preference there?

Thank you so much everyone for your advice, I really appreciate it!
 

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If what I'm looking at in the picture isn't an optical illusion then those teeth are hammered from a rock or something. They look completely rounded and need considerable grinding to get the edge back.
 
I don't think it is an optical illusion. They are very nearly at the end of their life. But it cuts very well, when it is cutting. I suppose I could just throw on a new chain for S&G. After I sharpened it, I have been the only one to run it, and I have not put it near any rocks, or dirt.
 
Here is the requested picture of the teeth. All this talk about the chain makes me wonder if it could possible be the issue. I know I have an 18" B&C from a Farm Boss hanging up somewhere....I'll need to address the pitch issue though for that since it is a .325 pitch.....I might try throwing on a carb, but I doubt I'll be that lucky. I was hoping not to tear down the saw again, but oh well, looks like I'll be cracking the case in half. I noticed that the seals are over $20 a piece from my Stihl dealer! That seams a little steep, does anyone have any experience with aftermarket seals? Chaps my butt they charge so much for a seal. Also too, what about the sealant that goes between the base and the cylinder? Any personal preference there?

Thank you so much everyone for your advice, I really appreciate it!
Did you actually see that it was the seal that was leaking?
 

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