Who here owns their own tree plantation? I have some specific questions about how income and expenses pan out. Self managing versus having a timber company manage the trees. A friend told me that a pine stand can pay 10% of it's land value every year when managed by a timber company.
Any tree farm owners here?
- Thread starter restoman
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
It depends on how well you know the industry, and how to best invest your money in the stand, when and how to cut, how long to carry oyur rotation, who to get to log it, regen it, planting site prep.
Basically, if you've been to forestry school and paid attention, and know some folks in the industry where you can get some referrals, you'll do ok managing your own land cauise you're taking out the middleman. Also, economy of scale comes in a bit here-- if you're only talking about 50 acrese the timber co. may be able to clump your ork with some other tracts to keep it so you're not slammed by the small tract incresed cost/acre due to moving costs for each stage.
Read a good book on pine silviculture, go to a LA for. assoc. meeting, and/or talk to a consulting forester and evaluate for yourself. Or wait for some dude named kkotteman to write you on this forum he's in your territory and sounds like he know whats up
Basically, if you've been to forestry school and paid attention, and know some folks in the industry where you can get some referrals, you'll do ok managing your own land cauise you're taking out the middleman. Also, economy of scale comes in a bit here-- if you're only talking about 50 acrese the timber co. may be able to clump your ork with some other tracts to keep it so you're not slammed by the small tract incresed cost/acre due to moving costs for each stage.
Read a good book on pine silviculture, go to a LA for. assoc. meeting, and/or talk to a consulting forester and evaluate for yourself. Or wait for some dude named kkotteman to write you on this forum he's in your territory and sounds like he know whats up
RVALUE
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unfortuneately, much of this good advice, etc. needs to be prefaced with "historically". The timber industry is dynamic and undergoing massive changes and the "new rules" are currently being written. He who guesses as to the new rules, WINS!
Thanks guys. You really do have to be in the thick of it to do the deal. 80 acre plots are what seems to be really common. The thing that gets me is how they are marketed when go to sell just the land. I'll get back to this later, anniversary diner time and I'll rep everyone once my post count hits 50.
kkottemann
ArboristSite Operative
What are some of your specific questions? I do mostly mitigation work for the LFA, timber companies and state parks....however I am a forester, do own my own tree farm and have worked for a timber company as a district forester.
kkottemann:
What I see here in my area is Loblolly pine stands. They do not seem to be directed towards pure profit from the trees. Everyone has a deer stand. That means no burns and plenty of hardwoods are allowed to grow. Finding properties that anyone really takes seriously is a real task. What you see being sold really is not managed for high value. What I would like to do is buy a property of 80 +/- a few acres. The idea is to take the property and clean it up or thin what ever the forester suggest and use that to pay off one of the mortgages. I want to buy with 2 loans. One that is short term for the value of what I can thin and one that is less than the annual payments a timber company would pay. So, does this sound feasible?
What I see here in my area is Loblolly pine stands. They do not seem to be directed towards pure profit from the trees. Everyone has a deer stand. That means no burns and plenty of hardwoods are allowed to grow. Finding properties that anyone really takes seriously is a real task. What you see being sold really is not managed for high value. What I would like to do is buy a property of 80 +/- a few acres. The idea is to take the property and clean it up or thin what ever the forester suggest and use that to pay off one of the mortgages. I want to buy with 2 loans. One that is short term for the value of what I can thin and one that is less than the annual payments a timber company would pay. So, does this sound feasible?
hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
In a word, no, or else everyone would be doing it. Plantation management has costs, carrying costs, risk of carrying these investments throughout the rotation age lest it get burned down or attacked by bugs. The best sites can handle more investment/acre and get your return, but figure on way more than one rotation to get it paid for.
Actually, absurd. Do you really think its that easy?
The first thinning is sometimes not even break even for the logging costs!!!!! Not to mention competition control,, etc. Those deer stands are there to milk a few more cents per acre.
Actually, absurd. Do you really think its that easy?
The first thinning is sometimes not even break even for the logging costs!!!!! Not to mention competition control,, etc. Those deer stands are there to milk a few more cents per acre.
Well I'm still interested. I will put a down payment of at least 20%. My point is that most of the lands are not well managed. I was interested to know if eking out a much better plan that what the property has could make this work. I'm not at all against putting my labor in.
kkottemann
ArboristSite Operative
80 acres is a small tract by forestry standards...so your return on investment would not be for 40 years or so. Like hammer said, a first thinning is not a big money gig. the object of a first thinning is to open up the stand for the trees to grow. If you get a bad contractor in there they can destroy the stand for life. You might get $200 per acre on a first thinning. Thats not going to pay down the debt on the land much. Now a small tree farm has many options...you can sell the timber, bale the pine straw, lease the land to hunters, sell carbon credits (not much there for the work involved)....mabe even turn it into a mitigation bank. the bottom line an investment in land and timber is better than any stock. you will get you money back, just not right away. If you want to talk I will pm you my #. Where in la are you. I am working on some sales right now, going price for pulp is $9 per ton and mabe $2 for chips depending where you are.
