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NEK

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I have a bunch of wild apple trees I plan to clean up the area around them and prune them up a little. They have a lot of broken branches from bears in them and stuff that i will take out as well. Any advice for making the trees healthier and more productive for years to come?
 
Apples

Remove most watershoots, and read some stuff on apple pruning. Depending if you are pruning for aesthetics or for production, there are several diferent methods. A lot of time aesthetically pleasing is the umbrella shape you typically see at old estates, and pruning for maximum fruit production is a science of its owns.
 
whack 'em good

fruit (and flower) production can be increased when the tree feels stress, the cutting you plan on doing may help accomplish this, so try that for the first year and wait and see what happens. If no increase make some big cuts the following year.
 
I was hoping the pruning would liven it up....

I was hoping my pruning would liven it up.... I think that is all they will need.

as for the bear... It is an investment for him... If he dose not eat me now he will have lots of apples to eat later.
 
Pruning old apples

Apple (and pear) pruning is pretty intensive, especially if you want fruit. This is becasue the fruit spurs last about 20 years and apples grow with a lot of vigor. They also tend to produce a lot of dual branches and water spouts.

When cleaning up old apple orchards (we have some 50 year old trees here) I cut the dead branches out first. Then the broken ones and diseased ones. Then the water spouts (large branches that grow in one year with no fruit spurs on them). Then I cut out any redundant 'double' branches in parallel with another branch. Then I cut any branches that are growing back into the center of the tree from outside. Then I cut long branches back 30-90%, depending on length and size. I also cut any tiny branches less than the thickness of a pencil (be careful not to cut off fruit spurs that size), and cut all the suckers growing from the roots around the base of the trunk.

That done, I then start to cut for shape. Shape is highly variable. I use a central leader scaffold system and not a vase or umbrella system like in the days of old. The problem with central vase pruning is that you put a lot of loading stress on one central point in the tree. If any branches split (as they tend to do in storms, or when heavy with fruit) that opens/exposes the whole branching system at one central point in the tree. A central leader system has a leader that is selected as a center point. Limbs are left to grow from the central leader at various intervals separated by at least a few inches and growing in different directions. I also do espallier pruning on my new trees, but that is a different topic.

That being said, on old trees the shape may already be determined and there is not much you can do about the scaffolding system desired. Prune to the shape that grew or was pruned for before, or that is asthetic to your eye. Try to ballance the tree to give it shape and structure so that it can gather light and produce fruit. Cut long arching branches shorter to better hold fruit (or bears, in your case). Cut out dense clusters and try to encourage growth where there are wide openings. Cut any branches that are really low to the ground or bent to the ground, and I cut branches that are way up and too high to get fruit from, or that are disporportional to the rest of the tree.

Then look at the spur system. Spurs are the scaly stubs that will produce flowers and fruit. On apples, they live for up to 20 years. In an established apple orchard, the rule of thumb is to cut about 95% of all new growth and leave 5% to grow and create new spurs. New growth will usually be smooth and not woody. You can follow the new growth back to a short scaly section where the end of last years growth stopped, then follow that back another year. That section will have some fruit spurs that are starting to form. Usually by the 3rd year bark will start forming and the spurs will be more developed and longer. Back on old bark wood you will see longer developed fruit sprus all along the tree. Do not prune or knock these off! In the case oe pears, they tend to create branches that bed over and sag. These are OK if you like that look.

Lastly, timing of pruning is important. If you are pruning flowering crabapples or ornamentals wait until after they bloom to prune. Otherwise you are just cutting off all the flowers before they bloom. In the case of fruit trees, prune them before they bloom. Later in winter is better. Studies show that trees recover from pruning faster when done in February as opposed to December. Also diseases are usually less progressive later in winter than fall and they will have less time to attack and damage your trees before they begin to grow again if you prune them later.

Good luck. There are many pruning books out there that show and describe all of this stuff. But it takes a few years to get the ideas down and figure out what you want to do when pruning. I still get to a point where I am not sure if I want to prune more tree or not. Usually I will stop then and decide to go back in later or not, or wait and prune out a section the following year. Another trick I have found it to prune an older orchard over 2 years instead of one. Cut out half of what you would the first year, and then go in the next year and finish the job. This is good with a larger orchard, or on single trees where there is a lot of damage that you really need to prune very hard overall. You can also summer prune, or "French" prune as some call it.

Also over the years, I have become a very heavy pruner, especially on apples. Buy or have on hand a good set of Felco #2 pruners, a good set of loppers and a good small pruning saw. I bought a Felco folding saw that I really like last year on Ebay. Also clean up the pruning debris and burn it. Kill the disease and bugs before they can escape back into your trees.
 
Wow Thanks

Now that is a lot of info....... I will take the advice.... I like the Two year plan because I don't want to overdo it the first time.
 
It may be better to be a little less aggressive with pruning live branches in this case.
Fruit tree production for human apples typically means trimming like hard like Windthrown suggests, to keep the tree growing low for easy harvesting and to encourage a harvest of big apples. But in this case, we have a mature tree that hasn't had maintenance pruning in years, and the goal is for tree health and wildlife food.
Reducing the number of fruit spurs on a tree will reduce the number of fruit, obviously, and the each fruit will be larger, but he total volume of fruit won't actually change much. You either have lots of small fruit or few large fruit.
Also, when you prune a tree hard, it reacts by sending up a lot of aggressive, fast growing, new shoots. Which means you end up in annual cycles of hard pruning.
For the first year, it may be better to just get in the tree and remove, dead, dying, broken, diseased branches. Then remove basil shoots and clean out the center of the tree a little, leaving fruit spurs.
Hard pruning can increase fruit production, but it also affects tree health. It's never good for a mature tree to prune it hard, even though that's exactly what fruit producers do. Consequently, their trees produce well and are relatively short lived.
 
apples

How big and/or old are these trees?? That's should be a consideration in your pruning plans. I frequently offer clients 3-5 year plans for older trees - it's all too easy to overprune and set the trees back.
 
NEK said:
I am pruning for max production to feed deer and other critters


Based on what you desire, I wouldn't do anything more than removing dead limbs. The deer will prune your trees for you and break as many limbs out as they can reach. Fogettaboutit!
 
gumneck said:
Based on what you desire, I wouldn't do anything more than removing dead limbs. The deer will prune your trees for you and break as many limbs out as they can reach. Fogettaboutit!

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

How true!!! When a deer stands on it's hind legs apples 8' up are not safe.

DAMHIKT.

Ed
 
As for apples..

I prune apples pretty hard as they are apt to overproduce in alternate years if left alone. On the years that they overproduce they use up too much sugar and underproduce the following year. This is common in any fruit production area that I have lived from Hood River, OR to Watsonville, CA.

Where I live now in central west Oregon there are many many old abandonded orchards. This area was a large plum/prune and apple growing area between WWI and WWII. One of the locals here has more apple scions and grafts than anyone else in the world (as far as I know). This property has what is left of an old pear, apple and plum orchard. At one time it was over 30 acres of trees. Now that area is mostly pasture, with a few huge apple, pear and plum trees left here and there. I have not had a chance to prune the old big fruit trees here, and they are all in the 'overproduce every other year' mode. They are all over 25 feet high as well. This year they will all get a very overdue hair cut. If you do it right, you do not affect the fruit production by pruing hard. In my view, it is far better to have a well pruned apple tree than one that is left to go wild.

I also have a new orchard that I put in 2 years ago. All kinds of fruit trees. Mainly semi-dwarf and interstemmed trees. Many heritage apples, pears and stone fruit. I have had to put a deer fence up around it, as I have no interest in supporting deer on my hard work. There are billions of acres for them to eat stuff, and they all want to eat my fruit trees! They mainly go after the drop fruit, but they will also defoliate a young tree if left unprotected by fencing. The elk here can and will kill a new planted orchard in a single night of feeding. Think want you want about deer (or elk), but I just as soon issue a million tags for them around here. If you live off the land, you may not be as happy to have a lot of deer around.
 
Spank that tree!!!!

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: Mike Maas, is probably the best source of info.
However, many people think this is crazy, but, if you just take a 2 x 4, and whack it really hard at the base of the trunk, it will stress it enough to start to produce fruit. I've done this before. It will work for you too. :deadhorse:
 
Spank that tree!!!!

Mike Maas, is probably the best source of info.
eHowever, many people think this is crazy, but, if you just take a 2 x 4, and whack it really hard at the base of the trunk, it will stress it enough to start to produce fruit. I've done this before. It will work for you too. :deadhorse:
 
windthrown said:
Apple (and pear) pruning is pretty intensive, especially if you want fruit. This is becasue the fruit spurs last about 20 years and apples grow with a lot of vigor. They also tend to produce a lot of dual branches and water spouts.

When cleaning up old apple orchards (we have some 50 year old trees here) I cut the dead branches out first. Then the broken ones and diseased ones. Then the water spouts (large branches that grow in one year with no fruit spurs on them). Then I cut out any redundant 'double' branches in parallel with another branch. Then I cut any branches that are growing back into the center of the tree from outside. Then I cut long branches back 30-90%, depending on length and size. I also cut any tiny branches less than the thickness of a pencil (be careful not to cut off fruit spurs that size), and cut all the suckers growing from the roots around the base of the trunk.

That done, I then start to cut for shape. Shape is highly variable. I use a central leader scaffold system and not a vase or umbrella system like in the days of old. The problem with central vase pruning is that you put a lot of loading stress on one central point in the tree. If any branches split (as they tend to do in storms, or when heavy with fruit) that opens/exposes the whole branching system at one central point in the tree. A central leader system has a leader that is selected as a center point. Limbs are left to grow from the central leader at various intervals separated by at least a few inches and growing in different directions. I also do espallier pruning on my new trees, but that is a different topic.

That being said, on old trees the shape may already be determined and there is not much you can do about the scaffolding system desired. Prune to the shape that grew or was pruned for before, or that is asthetic to your eye. Try to ballance the tree to give it shape and structure so that it can gather light and produce fruit. Cut long arching branches shorter to better hold fruit (or bears, in your case). Cut out dense clusters and try to encourage growth where there are wide openings. Cut any branches that are really low to the ground or bent to the ground, and I cut branches that are way up and too high to get fruit from, or that are disporportional to the rest of the tree.

Then look at the spur system. Spurs are the scaly stubs that will produce flowers and fruit. On apples, they live for up to 20 years. In an established apple orchard, the rule of thumb is to cut about 95% of all new growth and leave 5% to grow and create new spurs. New growth will usually be smooth and not woody. You can follow the new growth back to a short scaly section where the end of last years growth stopped, then follow that back another year. That section will have some fruit spurs that are starting to form. Usually by the 3rd year bark will start forming and the spurs will be more developed and longer. Back on old bark wood you will see longer developed fruit sprus all along the tree. Do not prune or knock these off! In the case oe pears, they tend to create branches that bed over and sag. These are OK if you like that look.

Lastly, timing of pruning is important. If you are pruning flowering crabapples or ornamentals wait until after they bloom to prune. Otherwise you are just cutting off all the flowers before they bloom. In the case of fruit trees, prune them before they bloom. Later in winter is better. Studies show that trees recover from pruning faster when done in February as opposed to December. Also diseases are usually less progressive later in winter than fall and they will have less time to attack and damage your trees before they begin to grow again if you prune them later.

Good luck. There are many pruning books out there that show and describe all of this stuff. But it takes a few years to get the ideas down and figure out what you want to do when pruning. I still get to a point where I am not sure if I want to prune more tree or not. Usually I will stop then and decide to go back in later or not, or wait and prune out a section the following year. Another trick I have found it to prune an older orchard over 2 years instead of one. Cut out half of what you would the first year, and then go in the next year and finish the job. This is good with a larger orchard, or on single trees where there is a lot of damage that you really need to prune very hard overall. You can also summer prune, or "French" prune as some call it.

Also over the years, I have become a very heavy pruner, especially on apples. Buy or have on hand a good set of Felco #2 pruners, a good set of loppers and a good small pruning saw. I bought a Felco folding saw that I really like last year on Ebay. Also clean up the pruning debris and burn it. Kill the disease and bugs before they can escape back into your trees.

Hey WT,

Are you or would you be a source for sharing some scion wood? If so, how about listing some varieties that ya got access to.
Tks
Tom
 
Sharing apple scions...

I wood be more than happy to share scions, budwood, or whatever anyone would want. However, I do not have many of the old orchard trees ID'd here. Also many of the varieties of the "new" orchard trees were missing lables when I transplanted them into the new rows two years ago. Many of these are heirloom varieties. I am still trying to figure out what types they are. All of the newer ones that I bought and planted are farily newer and common types (improved granny, orange pippin, bosc, asian pear, etc). My girlfriend planted the majority of the newer apple and pear trees before I moved here at the recommendation of the local apple guru, Nick Botner. I believe that he has over 2000 types of fruit trees, and they are mainly apples. He has a list that he sends out. He would certainly have all the older apples and pears that we have in the old orchards here identified and available (blush, russeted, etc) as well as most if not all of the newer ones. Some horticulture and botony gurus that I know in California have asked me about him. He is more than willing to sell and/or swap budwood. Here is info on him:

Nick Botner, 4015 Eagle Valley Road, Yoncalla, OR 97499. (503) 849-2781. Sells trees and will sell or trade scions from his huge collection of apples, pears, plums, and grapes.

Give him a call. He loves to talk about old apples. :clap:
 

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