Arboriculture up north

[Paul@Arborworks]

So i have been working in the industry for 3 years now(just finished my Ontario certification writing Isa in like a month) been doing it in northern Ontario . Ive noticed that it is very difficult to price jobs, still make some money and actually get the job. There are 2 other companies in our area and they undercut the hell out of us on pretty much all the jobs we price. For example

I priced a job to remove 3 40'' white spruce along a fence line in a backyard fairly straight forward job. i came in at 750 a fair price, the other guys came in at 350 and its like this for 70% of all the jobs i price. To make things better the other 2 companies are not certified in anyway and they do horrible work(topping,cement) all they're equipment is in poor condition and the spur everything, prune or removal.

All in all im just curious if its only a northern thing or if everyone deals with these things.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Welcome to the madness Paul. I think everybody deals with it to some degree, sounds like your area is really bad.

Those 40" Spruce must have been floppers, no stumps, easy access type deal. Clean Up?

 

[Paul@Arborworks]

Pretty easy job two flops the third had to be climbed along with full clean up(wood and brush removed).So ya its pretty bad up here,that being said we do get alot of jobs and slowly we are getting more recognition for our certification and professionalism but it sucks loosing jobs to companies who are doing jobs for what i couldnt even show up to the site for.

 

[deevo]

Pretty easy job two flops the third had to be climbed along with full clean up(wood and brush removed).So ya its pretty bad up here,that being said we do get alot of jobs and slowly we are getting more recognition for our certification and professionalism but it sucks loosing jobs to companies who are doing jobs for what i couldnt even show up to the site for.

Yeah that's lowballing for sure! I wouldn't roll my trucks for the prices they are giving, no wonder they are driving around in crap trucks etc... Do they use Wild things too? It's not too bad around here, you have your hacks and non insured ding dongs running around in pick me ups, but they can't do the compex jobs or get municipal work without proper certificates,training, insurance WSIB etc.... So that's where they lose and keep getting lowballing crap jobs! I did a job up near you last year, big yellow birch over a cottage outside of Temiskaming on the Quebec side, I got double that just to drop it, and cut it up, was 3' across and hollow for the first 40' on a lean towards the cottage, none of the hacks there wanted anything to do with it. Hope things get better for you, sound like a decent dude! Welcome to AS!

 

[superjunior]

Stick with it Paul. Sooner or later the hacks weed themselves out and make themselves known as.. well hacks

 

[Paul@Arborworks]

Yeah that's lowballing for sure! I wouldn't roll my trucks for the prices they are giving, no wonder they are driving around in crap trucks etc... Do they use Wild things too? It's not too bad around here, you have your hacks and non insured ding dongs running around in pick me ups, but they can't do the compex jobs or get municipal work without proper certificates,training, insurance WSIB etc.... So that's where they lose and keep getting lowballing crap jobs! I did a job up near you last year, big yellow birch over a cottage outside of Temiskaming on the Quebec side, I got double that just to drop it, and cut it up, was 3' across and hollow for the first 40' on a lean towards the cottage, none of the hacks there wanted anything to do with it. Hope things get better for you, sound like a decent dude! Welcome to AS!

Thanks, AS is awesome so far seems like a good site. As for there saws i belive they are old Stihls and more than likely a wild thing or two. Somehow though they manage to get big contracts they had the hydro contract up here for the last 10 years up until we took it last year and this year. They also get all the city work, since the city has been using them for like 20 years and their cheap. Yeah temiskaming is just north of us that sounds like it was one of those super fun jobs love pricing them out, we do usually get all the difficult or more challenging jobs as they dont seem to even price some of them since they know they more than likely cant do them without destroying somthing.

 

[treeman75]

There is one that has an ad in the newspaper saying guarantee lowest prices. I ran an ad for a month saying guarantee lowest prices guarantee damage and hack work and they put under the other ad. I see their work, gutters ripped off and side walks and driveways busted.

 

[robash]

In a lot of ways Northern Ontario is still in the stone age. Professionalism is growing north but very slowly. Prices in the south can not be carried north in a lot of cases. From time to time I travel for clients (more or less paid vacations) or am called in to trouble shot. Given what I have seen the tree guys there have the home field advantage. They have learned to network in ways you simply do not see anywhere else. It's like watching a Mennonite barn raising. Something as simple as daddy's farm and a " bigass firepit" help to keep their costs low and in other cases you are contending with Aboriginals that are not obligated to pay taxes and are content with a few bucks in there pockets at the end of the day.

 

[bushwacker101]

Keep ur chin up out there! Out here in Alberta we deal with the same thing, we have our reputable companies and our hacks (seems like more hack's... We had a guy advertising tree trimming and removal on kijiji and his pitch was " Have 30' latter, elecktric chainsaw, strong back!!!! He posted it just like I did here WOW huh!!!!). There will always be some hack that will come in for cheap, they usually dont stick around that long. Just remember dont short change yourself because they do, let your work speak for itself. Stick with it and you'll do fine. Make time to also explain the cost to the HO, this also helps them with there decsion, most HO's have no idea the work and equipment involved in trimming or removals. Hope this helps.

Ben
Bushwacker Tree Removal

 

[deevo]

Keep ur chin up out there! Out here in Alberta we deal with the same thing, we have our reputable companies and our hacks (seems like more hack's... We had a guy advertising tree trimming and removal on kijiji and his pitch was " Have 30' latter, elecktric chainsaw, strong back!!!! He posted it just like I did here WOW huh!!!!). There will always be some hack that will come in for cheap, they usually dont stick around that long. Just remember dont short change yourself because they do, let your work speak for itself. Stick with it and you'll do fine. Make time to also explain the cost to the HO, this also helps them with there decsion, most HO's have no idea the work and equipment involved in trimming or removals. Hope this helps.

Ben
Bushwacker Tree Removal

Ha it's the same here Ben, guys on Kijiji advertising like that, advertising that they even have equipment they don't have just to get the job! They won't last long either!

 

[Youngbuck20]

I worked for a local guy here for 3 days lol in those three days he smashed two fences, one on either side of the property, tried to cut down a 30 foot tree and cut right through the hinge wood then started pushing it like a crazed animal. Most ignorant and anal guy I've ever met. No insurance, no certification and most of all no common sense. Glad I'm still alive lol.

 

[Paul@Arborworks]

I worked for a local guy here for 3 days lol in those three days he smashed two fences, one on either side of the property, tried to cut down a 30 foot tree and cut right through the hinge wood then started pushing it like a crazed animal. Most ignorant and anal guy I've ever met. No insurance, no certification and most of all no common sense. Glad I'm still alive lol.

LOL sounds like the guys here, i once watched them prune like the only shagbark hickory in town, buddy goes to remove a 10'' limb, no undercut and it tore down like 6 ft Cant even explain how mad i was, one of the few "exotic trees"(barley any diversity up here) and they pretty much killed it.

 

[Oak Savanna]

Same kinda crap here. Its everywhere. What I did was put together a nice little booklet of photocopys with things in it like: Insurance certificate, WSIB clearance cert, chainsaw operator certificates, CPR/first aid training cert, etc... The more suff you include the better! You could even include a couple articles of horror stories of home owners being screwed over by hacks or other contractors. If people tell me they are getting other quotes I just hand them them the booklet along with the quote and tell them feel free to look it over. Give them something to think about! If they complain about my price I just explain to them that my price is higher because I have all the certification and it costs me alot of money every year to run a legit business. Do the other people quoting have all that stuff?? The hacks around here dont have a registered business or an HST # so right off the hop you know its always cash deals with them and no tax saves the customer more money with usually sells the job to the hacks instead of the legit business. If all they have is the lowest price in their head then you dont wanna work for em cause they probably are cheap and are going to be a pain in the butt or dont have the money anyway!