Arborsits training and questions for BC

[KGN]

Hello
I moved this thread, had it in the wrong section.
New to the forum. Trying to get some info on the different types of arborists in BC. From what I understand there are a few different types, arborist technician, climbing arborist, utility arborist. One question, can you go from a utility arborist into a climbing arborist?

What can people tell me about the utility arborist programs in BC? What's the job like? As an arborist do you have to live in a larger city centre or are people working and living in smaller towns?

I'm currently a wildland firefighter, have been on a gov crew type 1 for the past 8 years and looking for a change. I have lots of saw experience in falling danger trees, fuels frees ect and currently being trained to the BC forest safety council standards for falling, as the Wildfire Service is now one of three training providers. Other than golf course pruning I have no arborist experience.

Any recommendations for which training provider to work with if I choose to pursue?

I will be contacting a few different folks but looking for people's experience who work in BC. Seasonality of the work, travel ect, ability to work for yourself later on in your career?

Cheers.

 

[ropensaddle]

Not sure about BC here in states you must first be certified Arborist then test for utility arborist specialization or municipal etc.

 

[BC WetCoast]

In BC, there are essentially 3 types of arborists, residential/commerical (may be climbing, bucket operator or both), utility (maybe climbing, bucket or both) and municipal (includes the bureaucrat types - paperwork and inspectors and some munis have their own street tree crews).

The residential/commercial crews do the tree care for residential and commercial properties (duh), as well as street tree pruning contracts, tree planting, plant health care etc. There are small tree care companies in most of the small towns as well as a couple of larger ones in Vancouver (along with many smaller ones)

The utility arborists, do strictly line clearance and ROW clearing. You need to be a Certified Utility Arborist to do the trimming work (or an apprentice working directly for a CUA). CUA certification from other jurisdictions may not be accepted in BC. To become certified, you need 4000 hrs? as an apprentice. You obviously need to be hired by a company to become an apprentice. There are only a handful of companies doing utility work in BC, Asplundh, Davey, Riteway to name a few. Where the crews are based depends on the contracts. Many times they are based in a city and then work out of hotels.

Yes, you can go from an utility arborist to a res/comm company.

There are no training providers in BC. UBC and BCIT both have urban forestry programs, but from what I've seen neither give any practical training. The easiest thing is to get hired by a company. The larger the company, the better the training opportunities. If you show promise, you will be quickly moved through the ranks, as there is a real shortage of experienced workers.

The municipal tree workers are highly unionized and take a bunch of time working as a casual employee before you get hired on full time. To be an inspector, you need ISA certification and a bunch of experience.

I work in Vancouver, there is no seasonality of work. If we can drive the trucks we work, rain, shine or snow.

Hope this helps.

 

[ropensaddle]

In BC, there are essentially 3 types of arborists, residential/commerical (may be climbing, bucket operator or both), utility (maybe climbing, bucket or both) and municipal (includes the bureaucrat types - paperwork and inspectors and some munis have their own street tree crews).

The residential/commercial crews do the tree care for residential and commercial properties (duh), as well as street tree pruning contracts, tree planting, plant health care etc. There are small tree care companies in most of the small towns as well as a couple of larger ones in Vancouver (along with many smaller ones)

The utility arborists, do strictly line clearance and ROW clearing. You need to be a Certified Utility Arborist to do the trimming work (or an apprentice working directly for a CUA). CUA certification from other jurisdictions may not be accepted in BC. To become certified, you need 4000 hrs? as an apprentice. You obviously need to be hired by a company to become an apprentice. There are only a handful of companies doing utility work in BC, Asplundh, Davey, Riteway to name a few. Where the crews are based depends on the contracts. Many times they are based in a city and then work out of hotels.

Yes, you can go from an utility arborist to a res/comm company.

There are no training providers in BC. UBC and BCIT both have urban forestry programs, but from what I've seen neither give any practical training. The easiest thing is to get hired by a company. The larger the company, the better the training opportunities. If you show promise, you will be quickly moved through the ranks, as there is a real shortage of experienced workers.

The municipal tree workers are highly unionized and take a bunch of time working as a casual employee before you get hired on full time. To be an inspector, you need ISA certification and a bunch of experience.

I work in Vancouver, there is no seasonality of work. If we can drive the trucks we work, rain, shine or snow.

Hope this helps.

So essentially what your saying is; though I have verifiable 20 plus years in line clearance experience including supervisory for at least 16. If I were to ever decide to come to BC I would do so as an apprentice? I mean I have no desire to, just trying to understand the new industry requirements! I probably have pulled 500 tons of just overhang not including take downs never a serious accident, numerous safety awards etc. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the new wave stuff.

 

[KGN]

http://www.itabc.ca/program/utility-arborist

From what I understand rope and saddle, there is an option for one one with experience like you to challenge the process.

And thanks Bc wetcoast, I'm surprised there isn't a full in arborist course here like there is in other provinces. I should have taken the arborist course when I was in Ontario. Seems like there are short 6 to 8 week courses here as part of the apprentice program, but nothing like arborist courses offered through other colleges in other provinces.

 

[BC WetCoast]

So essentially what your saying is; though I have verifiable 20 plus years in line clearance experience including supervisory for at least 16. If I were to ever decide to come to BC I would do so as an apprentice? I mean I have no desire to, just trying to understand the new industry requirements! I probably have pulled 500 tons of just overhang not including take downs never a serious accident, numerous safety awards etc. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the new wave stuff.

As far as I understand no. There are people certified in other provinces who can't work as a CUA in BC. BC Hydro (the electrical utility) has it's own set of qualifications. Having said that though, with your experience, I'm sure there is a fast track way of being qualified should you ever want to work here in Shangrila. Not working in that area, I'm not sure of the details.

http://www.itabc.ca/program/utility-arborist

From what I understand rope and saddle, there is an option for one one with experience like you to challenge the process.

And thanks Bc wetcoast, I'm surprised there isn't a full in arborist course here like there is in other provinces. I should have taken the arborist course when I was in Ontario. Seems like there are short 6 to 8 week courses here as part of the apprentice program, but nothing like arborist courses offered through other colleges in other provinces.

Kwantlen College in Surrey/Langley, has an arborist component as part of its horticulture course. The closest full time course I know of is Olds College in Olds, Alberta.

 

[KGN]

Okay thanks for the info. So from what I gather you don't have to go through the official apprentice pathway to become a climbing arborist, you can just start with a good company and work your way forward from there. I was hoping I could do some formal education and be a little more marketable. It would also be nice to see if it's something I would enjoy or if I'm barking up the wrong tree so to speak.

After talking with a few different folks I am starting to think that utility arborist is maybe not as desirable due to the constant travel. Perhaps any utility arborsists could chime in.

 

[ropensaddle]

Okay thanks for the info. So from what I gather you don't have to go through the official apprentice pathway to become a climbing arborist, you can just start with a good company and work your way forward from there. I was hoping I could do some formal education and be a little more marketable. It would also be nice to see if it's something I would enjoy or if I'm barking up the wrong tree so to speak.

After talking with a few different folks I am starting to think that utility arborist is maybe not as desirable due to the constant travel. Perhaps any utility arborsists could chime in.

Utility arborist has good points and bad. A few of the good points are; year round work , Normally benefits, though when I started it was none! Normally equipment is inspected and safe though some district's are low funded. Moving up through the ranks is swift until you reach foreman if you learn and work hard 5 years you will be at foreman level! Now the bad be ready to get cussed because the customer planted a tulip poplar under the lines. At foreman level be ready to be essentially the scape goat for everything from employee to office workers as it will always be your fault if things are not done in a safe swift manner. Two things make or break the job, one is good loyal workers that know you have enough headaches without adding baby sitting to your duties. Two you enjoy working hard at a safe speed and you and management are on the same page.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Okay thanks for the info. So from what I gather you don't have to go through the official apprentice pathway to become a climbing arborist, you can just start with a good company and work your way forward from there. I was hoping I could do some formal education and be a little more marketable. It would also be nice to see if it's something I would enjoy or if I'm barking up the wrong tree so to speak.

After talking with a few different folks I am starting to think that utility arborist is maybe not as desirable due to the constant travel. Perhaps any utility arborsists could chime in.

There is a CUA cource in BC. I believe you can enter shortly after you are registered with a company.
I can't remember how many weeks per year you go to the course?? most trades its 6 weeks.
I believe it's in Langley.
I'm sure it's not 4,000 hour though. Seems like a lot. It was 2300 hours not that long ago. If you were to come up through the ranks in Vancouver then you will just become a bucket slug. You will know that well. Good thing about that is you can have a life. They don't pay the CUA's a fortune so there is definitely perks with the big company's like Asplundh & Davey. You can make $1000 cash on a Saturday using their equipment if your certified. If you are only trimming everyday for years then you will be pretty limited. Working out of town you will start out slashing saplings and dragging it to the road side and chipping it eventually.
You could also be back doing it in 35 yrs too.
Some jobs its all slashing but still want a CUA lead hand. A lot of that work can ruin your life. On the road, constantly in hotels, Lots of drugs & alcohol and backstabbing one another in industry.
I wouldn't recommend it.
You could however get in the electrical union that way and its a foot in the door for being a Lineman.If you are a CUA then you will shave a year of a Lineman aprenticeship. I would try residential tree work and see if its for you. You can do a course that permits you too fall legally in a non falling production setting. I'm not sure if many do it? Some of the older guys just do consulting work now. Then there's vegetation management, writing riparian prescriptions as an ISA arborist.

 

[ropensaddle]

There is a CUA cource in BC. I believe you can enter shortly after you are registered with a company.
I can't remember how many weeks per year you go to the course?? most trades its 6 weeks.
I believe it's in Langley.
I'm sure it's not 4,000 hour though. Seems like a lot. It was 2300 hours not that long ago. If you were to come up through the ranks in Vancouver then you will just become a bucket slug. You will know that well. Good thing about that is you can have a life. They don't pay the CUA's a fortune so there is definitely perks with the big company's like Asplundh & Davey. You can make $1000 cash on a Saturday using their equipment if your certified. If you are only trimming everyday for years then you will be pretty limited. Working out of town you will start out slashing saplings and dragging it to the road side and chipping it eventually.
You could also be back doing it in 35 yrs too.
Some jobs its all slashing but still want a CUA lead hand. A lot of that work can ruin your life. On the road, constantly in hotels, Lots of drugs & alcohol and backstabbing one another in industry.
I wouldn't recommend it.
You could however get in the electrical union that way and its a foot in the door for being a Lineman.If you are a CUA then you will shave a year of a Lineman aprenticeship. I would try residential tree work and see if its for you. You can do a course that permits you too fall legally in a non falling production setting. I'm not sure if many do it? Some of the older guys just do consulting work now. Then there's vegetation management, writing riparian prescriptions as an ISA arborist.

I dunno about BC but here the drugs don't fly no more, you will be tested upon hiring and after. You will even sign papers saying if maryjane is legalized for prescriptions that you wont partake and you will be terminated if you do! The pay you are right is not huge and yes if you don't do anything but trim,crew leader is highest you can reach. Its interesting the differences there and here I guess we have more needing to work so the drug thing won't fly now. Having said that the only ones doing the work here now seem to be Hispanics. Learn Spanish seems to be the way up now.

 

[Westboastfaller]

So essentially what your saying is; though I have verifiable 20 plus years in line clearance experience including supervisory for at least 16. If I were to ever decide to come to BC I would do so as an apprentice? I mean I have no desire to, just trying to understand the new industry requirements! I probably have pulled 500 tons of just overhang not including take downs never a serious accident, numerous safety awards etc. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the new wave stuff.

This is pretty common. You could drive all you life in England but you can't drive in NA with a UK licence. We all couldn't go over there either. Trades are the same. Terminology and such is different. I would assume you could patch over with proof of experience, especially if it was with Davey or Aspludha. I would assume you could do the same practical & writen exam that anyone would have to do after they have completed all their hours. I know an apprentice that went east with the company for four months and his hours didn't count because it was a different province. A CUA has to do that course I mentioned in the last post to qualify to fall trees outside of utility work. They are still not qualified to production fall though.
I was going to bring a good buddy that had over 30 years as a coast CUA then..up to the patch cutting seismic lines and snag falling as my partner but he didnt quality. He would have had to do a three day buckermans coarce and wouldn't be permitted to cut over 6" dia.
I remember when I started seismic and the prime or permitee would always tell us they have lots of ropes if we came to any steep terrain that they would have us saw crews tie a rope for the recording crew and line shooters. That was the way back then. One year, I mentioned to the push that we should hang a rope on this one hill. He said we can't do that anymore because the knots have to be certified knots ..which I can tie a bowline or running Bowline just fine
BUT..I'm just a stupid certified faller...haha. I'm saying you have to be certified to technically tie a certified knot.

Now that is the rules enforced to the fullest. I'm sure @BC WetCoast will tell you that many res guys operate daily and never have entered as much as a day course in their lives. True! There is always bigger fish to fry in the city than some 'one man band'. If they come to see you in more of a remote setting then you better have your ducks in a row.

I dunno about BC but here the drugs don't fly no more, you will be tested upon hiring and after. You will even sign papers saying if maryjane is legalized for prescriptions that you wont partake and you will be terminated if you do! The pay you are right is not huge and yes if you don't do anything but trim,crew leader is highest you can reach. Its interesting the differences there and here I guess we have more needing to work so the drug thing won't fly now. Having said that the only ones doing the work here now seem to be Hispanics. Learn Spanish seems to be the way up now.

Only gas & oil is monitored. Much 'American' influence. Calgary is tied into Houston pretty tight. It's all the same big Clients here, there and Europe so it stands to reason. If you work for a big contractor like Clean Harbors then its in-house testing anually. Often it is at the beginning of each job with little sub contractor employees. Random testing is illegal. It has to be post accident testing or 'just cause' like some idiot smoked a joint in the camp room and the wrong person smelt it in the hall. That would give them the right to test everyone in that trailer at least. In the north east BC off the Alaska Hwy, its all Treaty 8, its very political. They will pull the race card right away on racial profiling. I seen that very situation happen were they were going to test one or two rooms instead of everyone.
They don't want to retest everyone because what if half failed? It's freeze up and all the jobs kick of at once. All the saw crews, surveyers and seismic drillers can hire on somewhere else before Christmas. All the licensee, permitee and prime contractor big shots are going home.
So testing doesn't stop drugs necessarily
It's not weed that they are worried about so much. If it shows up faint then they may let it go anyways. The hard drugs only sticks in the system for 48-72 hours
In most cases. There is also kits people use that Velcro in your waistline that keeps it to tempture that use synthetic urine. Now sometimes it's two part testing where you can't go on to the job for72 hours as its pending lab results. Then the person would have to use urine of a non user of the same sex and approximate age. Three part testing would be a swob too. I've done in-house testing and they handed everyone a bottle of water with your swob. Logging is the most dangerous and there is not a lot of intervention.
Utility & res work ?? I guess it comes down to the individuals ability to perform. Working for the City may be different?? It just may be post policy violation hoops to keep your job and clean you up.

 

[ropensaddle]

This is pretty common. You could drive all you life in England but you can't drive in NA with a UK licence. We all couldn't go over there either. Trades are the same. Terminology and such is different. I would assume you could patch over with proof of experience, especially if it was with Davey or Aspludha. I would assume you could do the same practical & writen exam that anyone would have to do after they have completed all their hours. I know an apprentice that went east with the company for four months and his hours didn't count because it was a different province. A CUA has to do that course I mentioned in the last post to qualify to fall trees outside of utility work. They are still not qualified to production fall though.
I was going to bring a good buddy that had over 30 years as a coast CUA then..up to the patch cutting seismic lines and snag falling as my partner but he didnt quality. He would have had to do a three day buckermans coarce and wouldn't be permitted to cut over 6" dia.
I remember when I started seismic and the prime or permitee would always tell us they have lots of ropes if we came to any steep terrain that they would have us saw crews tie a rope for the recording crew and line shooters. That was the way back then. One year, I mentioned to the push that we should hang a rope on this one hill. He said we can't do that anymore because the knots have to be certified knots ..which I can tie a bowline or running Bowline just fine
BUT..I'm just a stupid certified faller...haha. I'm saying you have to be certified to technically tie a certified knot.

Now that is the rules enforced to the fullest. I'm sure @BC WetCoast will tell you that many res guys operate daily and never have entered as much as a day course in their lives. True! There is always bigger fish to fry in the city than some 'one man band'. If they come to see you in more of a remote setting then you better have your ducks in a row.



Only gas & oil is monitored. Much 'American' influence. Calgary is tied into Houston pretty tight. It's all the same big Clients here, there and Europe so it stands to reason. If you work for a big contractor like Clean Harbors then its in-house testing anually. Often it is at the beginning of each job with little sub contractor employees. Random testing is illegal. It has to be post accident testing or 'just cause' like some idiot smoked a joint in the camp room and the wrong person smelt it in the hall. That would give them the right to test everyone in that trailer at least. In the north east BC off the Alaska Hwy, its all Treaty 8, its very political. They will pull the race card right away on racial profiling. I seen that very situation happen were they were going to test one or two rooms instead of everyone.
They don't want to retest everyone because what if half failed? It's freeze up and all the jobs kick of at once. All the saw crews, surveyers and seismic drillers can hire on somewhere else before Christmas. All the licensee, permitee and prime contractor big shots are going home.
So testing doesn't stop drugs necessarily
It's not weed that they are worried about so much. If it shows up faint then they may let it go anyways. The hard drugs only sticks in the system for 48-72 hours
In most cases. There is also kits people use that Velcro in your waistline that keeps it to tempture that use synthetic urine. Now sometimes it's two part testing where you can't go on to the job for72 hours as its pending lab results. Then the person would have to use urine of a non user of the same sex and approximate age. Three part testing would be a swob too. I've done in-house testing and they handed everyone a bottle of water with your swob. Logging is the most dangerous and there is not a lot of intervention.
Utility & res work ?? I guess it comes down to the individuals ability to perform. Working for the City may be different?? It just may be post policy violation hoops to keep your job and clean you up.

It used to be similar here and may be on some jobs IDK when I was working for an employer in 2006 the company made everyone sign a new drug policy that I contested because it was discriminatory. I had to see the vice president and tell him why I did not wish to sign it. The policy said persons in safety sensitive jobs will be tested. I told him if it said all employees I would not only sign it I would do it with glee. I told him I supported the test but it should include everyone and I plucked out a hair and said you can test that if you like it goes back 7 years if you think I am high. He said we are only interested in safety sensitive jobs . I then said well I will sign it but really you in the office also reflect my safety if you don't provide the tools needed etc. I said true effective management leads by example! I fully believe policy should include everyone in a company.

 

[KGN]

Thanks for the replies again, I think I have enough info to make a decision what route I take. I would like to do some formal training first, so I may look into some courses even if they are outside BC. I'm also going to continue my path towards getting my falling ticket as well. Are the courses arborist Canada puts on of any value? I notice they have some Intro climbing type courses that are just a few days.

 

[KGN]

Well I decided to take 2 two day courses to introduce myself to climbing and arborist techniques through arboriculture Canada. That way I can get an idea if I will like it or not. Courses are in October. Looking forward to them.