Are you an easy rescue?

[BigJohn]

How many of you have been in some situations that were a bit hairy? How many of set yourself to be an easy rescue if something goes wrong? Its a good thing to think about that alone could save your life in an accident.

 

[jkrueger]

What would be the thinking for doing that?
How does that prepaedness show up and work?
Jack

 

[BigJohn]

Its kinda like putting a lanyard on in case you fall. Have yourself setup to bail or be bailed. Don't tie yourself off to tree in such a way a whole other systems needs to be brought into the to secure you to lower you out. Example is some guys take their eye and tie it off with a running bowling when chunking down wood and come down a few feet single line. It would be hard to bring a guy down on that single line do to all the friction.

 

[jkrueger]

I think I do what you are suggesting and it is important to have a sound approach to it, make it natural.

Can you give more examples?

Jack

 

[rumination]

BigJohn, how do you set yourself up when blocking down a spar, in order to make yourself an easier rescue?


Thanks

 

[OutOnaLimb]

When I was just starting out I worked for some guys who were big on ariel rescue. Honestly Asplunds was the best. We would take an hour out of the day at the end of the week and actually do a rescue using the other climbers on our crew. Great training!!! Now that I am on my own and have sorted through the various groundies over the months, and have finally gotten a guy that I can finally mold into a great climber. Ariel rescue is one of the things I that I really need to be teaching him. He is ex USMC and a great rock climber. He has taken to tree work remarkably well. Im kinda thinking that friday we need to go over some of the basics. Thanks for bringing up this thread.

But on the flip side of this note, it is always good to keep a rescue bag with a set of gaffs, rope, and a saddle close by. Even better yet, have some one on the ground that knows how to apply it.

Kenn



:Monkey:

 

[NeTree]

It seems to me that if you're putting yourself in a position where you need to consider making yourself an "easy rescue", you probably are in the wrong position to begin with.

 

[wiley_p]

Self rescue is the sign of a proffessional, I disagree with Big jon, on his dislike of tying off on a spar. Its a immediate firing offense with me if when a top is being cut, or a peice over 6' without being tied off with a proper hitch setup on single line, and on rappel. The running bowline will not stop a split if cutting heavy lean improperly. A clove with a back, or a constrictor will. If the climber meakes a mistake, all that needs to be done is release flipline and a rappel himself or have a groundman control descent. Unless someone is unconcious, one needs to breath thru his nose before rushing into a tree, Are you a medic?, did you consider mechanism of injury? a struck by could involve spinal injury. And yes every tree job will a have another climber there with his gear. the gaffs being a given.

 

[Toddppm]

The training we got in the FD for rope rescues was to use our own gear, never the person we were trying to rescue. Once they were on our system their ropes were cut.
Is aerial rescue in trees taught differently?

 

[BigJohn]

I don't care what anyone says or how good you or they are. When ever you start that saw up to make a cut you put yourself in a dangerous position. If you don't think that way and respect that then you are an accident waiting to happen. That just as ignorant as saying it can't happen to me I know what I am doing.

Dan? Do we always know what we are doing? Are our heads always in the game?

I'm just saying there are many ways to do things sometimes it best to keep it simple.

For a spar I would say the rope guide or just a cambium saver is great. I have a cambium saver I use for everything. Its only about 14 inches long. Its not adjustable but it can still be used when chunking down big wood. It does't go all the way around and doesn't to be in a crotch. If look back in one of the TCI magazine I believe Tom had an article in there with the setup. I love it. I have a rope guide but seldome use it unless I need to be able to choke a small spar.

I started this trhead to maybe get some of you thinking but I get the feeling that I am getting the wrong response. Maybe I am not perfect or the best climber. I must really suck to wanna think that way in tree and think of the what ifs.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

FACT !!! more people are injured practacing ariel rescue than in real work..i personaly practice safe climbing all the time i dont even consider easy rescues etc etc .prehaps i dont get this thread maybe i need to rethink my climbing

 

[BigJohn]

I never said practice. I am just saying while you are working remember things happen, try and stayed tied in such a way that if something would go wrong and you needed to be rescued it could easily be done with out the need of some extra or special equipment.

 

[Climber2]

I like the idea. I'm glad you pointed it out. I'll probably use webbing sling and biners now.

Mike

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by BigJohn
I never said practice. I am just saying while you are working remember things happen, try and stayed tied in such a way that if something would go wrong and you needed to be rescued it could easily be done with out the need of some extra or special equipment.

Gee, all morning today I kept closing down about safty. Silly isn't it, and then I realized I was doing it all OK. I hate learning from words. It always gets me to be in my head filled mod and the climb and work get squashed. Just me. Thanks for the heads up John.

Jack

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think there is truth in what Erik says; but, then by some safety standard etc.; ya could say that even 20' off the ground that it wold be preferable, or perhaps in some camps commanded that you do as John says.

If the habits have been made and are quick and sure enuff for implementation; i guess obviously John's way would be safer. With a degree of moderation(98.5% compliance) and adept at setting up (roughly as much time, got tools) why not?

Just another puzzle piece to think about as ya juggle. i try to kinda do it; have an escape or rescuable getaway. i've already found myself compromised, shock setting in{SSS (Stupid Spyder Splat) }, having to reset my own line to bring myself down, in the back of my mind i knew i would be hard to get to; then redoing my own line; and i knew what was up (that was starting to change); and a rescuer wouldn't, and the bucket wouldn't get back there......

So, why not consider it; implement when ya can, and all of the riskier stuff etc. ya can; to the point and habit of realizing conciously when you aren't set so, and that you are giving that up, perhaps make other pre-cautions.

i think it is a good awareness habit; and in the mix, this is timely review.

It's all good!

Or something like that!
:alien: :alien:

 

[MasterBlaster]

This was GM's Best Post Ever!!!

Boy Howdy!


"Cll my father that crap and your looking for trouble, he wouldn't eat for a week if that meant i could or my brothers could eat. He would give his shirt for anybody,

He held chunks of lobster with his bare hands while my nephew smashed them open with a hammer and hit his fingers lots, but he just laughed because my nephew was enjoying it. Thats what i'm defending when rbtree says crap,

i'm defending a life time of sensarity and gentlman like actions not just the man!"

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Don Blair wrote a good article titled "Aerial Rescue Avoidance" a few years ago for TCI magazine. Think about that. It's a bit about mindset. Don'r wander into a dead-end.

With the SRT system I use there are only a few times where the groundie couldn't lower me in case of an AR. When I SRT for a removal I use an adjustable FC and choke it to the spar.

How many people have an access line or extra throwline in any tree that they climb? I'll bet that there is a small decimal point percentage of climbers who do. A lifetime of dealing with the extra line would be paid back if the climber ever needed an AR once in their career.

Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'm on my lonesome, myself.

If I had to rely on my ground crew to rescue me...

 

[rumination]

Hey, at least you got a ground crew, MB! Like Rocky I always try to set myself up for self rescue. There are a couple of folks where I work who can use a belt and some gaffs, but even if they could get to me they probably wouldn't know what to do. And if I'm doing work back in the woods it could be an easy hour before anyone could get to me.

Even so, I appreciate BigJohn's point. I also see how working SRT can make rescue so much easier.

 

[coydog]

We try to be in the habit of setting an access line, it's easy to talk about , pretty easy to forget to do in the field, but a good idea. everybody on our crew climbs and does aerial rescue training.
Tom, someone would still have to climb up and cut/unclip your lanyard if you were flipped in and unconscious or immobilized before being lowered on the srt system right? do you habitually install an access line in addition to climbing srt?