Ash tree - 1) Dead limb forever, 2) Bucket crotch?

[scaples]

My first post--woohoo!

"Patient profile:" Ash tree, age unknown (I estimate it's about 35 years old since it is one of those middle-of-the-front-yard trees planted between the front of our built-in-1981-house and the sidewalk). Roughly a two foot diameter trunk (just above the beginning of the flare for the roots) and I'd estimate between 40 and 50 feet tall.

1) Dead limb forever?
(a) If a limb/branch has no leaves or other shoots or any other growth actively growing anywhere along its entire length (whereas the rest of the tree has greened up and has leaves), is that branch permanently dead and therefore okay for me to prune? Or is there some chance that limb will "come back to life?"
(b) There is another branch similar to "(a)" but there is one live shoot on it about halfway down its length... I should prune the dead growth of that particular "partially alive" branch from the outer edge of the canopy back to that lone live shoot/twig, right (as well as pruning all other dead branches along that limb from that lone live twig on back to the main stem/trunk)?

2) "Bucket crotch"
This same Ash has what I've dubbed (please forgive my naïveté with respect to proper terminology) a "bucket crotch" whereby atop the main stem/trunk, were several branches meet, there is formed a concave area in which rain water can sit. I worry about this damaging the tree... I've inspected it and found it usually damp and containing a fine sediment (e.g., bits of bark, etc.). I also worry about some sort of fungus or other such moisture-loving organism moving in and weakening the tree. The tree branches that form this "bucket" are all main branches and lowest permanent branches and couldn't be removed without serious trauma to the tree in my opinion. Is there any sort of "dome" or other solution that will deflect water and still allow airflow yet will not create a haven for other organisms or animals (I've had to chase squirrels out of there twice already this season)?

I want to do my best to provide the optimal care for our Ash while we can still enjoy it's company--the Emerald Ash Borer is in town. :-(

Sorry for the long post; trying to give good info. Please feel free to ask any follow-up questions of me. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Shayne

 

[randyg]

Hello Shayne and Welcome

Sorry to hear the Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) is in town. Thats life I guess? The dead appearing branch is dead, cut it off. The one mostly dead, also should be cut off. Back at the tree is best. Close is good, but don't flush cut. You want to leave a bump, but not a stub. If you don't understand these fairly crude terms, do a quick search for proper pruning technique or something like that.

About the little pond, you could put frogs in after a rain? Make sure they are "tree" frogs though.

Wouldn't worry bout rot, bugs will probably get there first.

Hope you enjoy the site. . .lots a very good scoop here, and some not so much. . .

randy

 

[scaples]

RE: Hello Shayne and Welcome [Ash tree - 1) Dead limb forever?, 2) Bucket crotch?]

Thanks for the advice, RandyG (and the humor, too... "tree frogs").

If anyone else cares to provide input, please feel free... I'll probably be getting to this task next week.

Thanks,
Shayne

 

[ddhlakebound]

With EAB already in your area, and branches dying back on your ash tree, "bucket crotch" is the last thing I'd be worried about.

If it's already infected, it's a goner. If it's not, and it's just some dieback from other causes, you need to be having your tree treated to protect from EAB, or it most likely will be infected. Failing that, I'd be planting new trees now in your front yard that are not of the ash variety.

Learn how to do a proper collar cut for pruning your dead limbs, and be sure not to violate the branch protection zone.

 

[scaples]

Thanks for your advice, ddhlakebound.

I'm definitely a prudent and proper pruner (outside the collar) and will be careful; thx for the reminder.

As for the EAB, yep, we're in a "quarantined" county... I'm trying to determine whether or not our Ash is EAB or other borer affected or just naturally having branches die off. I'm reading up online (e.g., http://www.emeraldashborer.info, http://www.agri.ohio.gov, http://ashalert.osu.edu). I do suspect something is affecting the tree, though, since it seems like I notice a few branches a year dying. :-(

Everyone else who has some advice not already covered, please educate me... like I mentioned, I'll likely get to this task next week.

Thanks,
Shayne

 

[randyg]

The beatles haven't jumped the Miss. river yet as far as I know, so have yet to see the actual bug. Seen pics and understand they leave a D shaped hole in the tree, but everyone around here is sure shook up about them comin for sure and killin ALL the ash trees off. Soooo, as you learn more, about signs, cost effective cures, and changing conditions of your own tree, feel free to share, yes?

THANKS

 

[S Mc]

Shayne, please post pictures so we can better advise you on this situation.

Also, if you are in a quarantined county, there should be guidelines already set up for management. Have you talked to your local extension agency yet?

Sylvia

 

[scaples]

S Mc/Sylvia and other kind and helpful experts on this site, here are pix I snapped 6/4/09 around 2 p.m. EST. The front of our house is almost parallel to the east-west compass points. To orient you to the pix, the first ones I shot (facing towards our house) were from southwest of the Ash tree...

http://www2.snapfish.com/share/p=1441244149828077/l=1930646007/g=60155343/otsc=SYE/otsi=SALB

Please forgive me for any lack of clarity or my inability to know exactly what might make a good diagnostic shot... I tried to capture some dead and mostly dead dead branches but they are difficult to distinguish from the rest of the branches and canopy. Also, please forgive the weeds and the dead phlox (I'd causally tossed the latter at the base of the tree this spring when moving it from somewhere else in our garden; I didn't particularly care if the phlox made it... I was kinda testing how resilient it was by my conscious lack of care in transplanting it).

I looked all over the trunk for any holes and only found one... seemed "D" shaped, though (EAB!?) :-( I didn't see any holes on the lowest branch that is completely dead, although I did take two pix of that branch's underside.

Anyway, curious as to what you all think and recommend...

Thanks,
Shayne

 

[scaples]

Hello, All!

Just wondering... anyone had any additional thoughts after viewing the pix I uploaded in my most recent update to this thread (one week ago)?

Thank you,
Shayne

 

[capetrees]

Bucket crotch?

That can be fixed.

Stick a whole ham up there and remove the bone.

Problem solved.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[S Mc]

Scaples, the dead limb appears to be indeed dead. This could certainly be removed. But this would be the only limb I would remove. I also would wait until after the active season of the EAB to do so.

There are several insects that are foliar feeders but I cannot tell if that is what is going on with the fine tip damage you are seeing.

Typically EAB damage expresses itself from the top down. I am not seeing that in your pictures. However, since you are in EAB country, I would call your local extension office and have them take a look. This is a beautiful tree and one which you may opt to have treated as a preventive.

Personally, I would not be too fussed about the "bucket crotch". This tree has existed with this for many, many years. It appears that at some point in time, long ago, the terminal leader was damaged and these lateral limbs took over. There is no fixing this and trying to could end up causing more problems than currently exist.

A note on the selection of a protective circle around the base of the tree. Whereas I am a huge proponent of significant organic mulch rings, I am troubled by flowers tight up against a tree in a limited area. This keeps the root crown damp where it needs to be dry and exposed to the air. I would encourage you to consider enlarging this area a bit and pulling the plants away from the trunk, pulling the mulch away from the trunk and allowing this delicate area to dry out.

Sylvia

 

[scaples]

Dear S_Mc/Sylvia (and the rest of the trusted experts who added valuable advice),

I am sincerely grateful for your professional opinions on my Ash tree's situation. I appreciate your candor and friendliness.

I will make sure to take all of your points under advisement. I hope to keep you updated later this year or next.

Thank you again,
Shayne

 

[computeruser]

If EAB is around and you're already seeing die back, I'd just take the thing out now so you can get something else in there. I had one of the first EAB trees in the western Detroit suburbs and it hung in there for four or five years, but it looked like #### in the process and that was five years that could have been spent on a new tree getting established and growing...

 

[scaples]

Thanks for the suggestion, computeruser.

 

[scaples]

N.B., I d/k whether or not the 1st link I'd posted to the pix required you to have an account to view the photo album... my apologies if it did as I normally set up my photo albums to NOT require people w/ whom I share the link to set up an account just to look @ the pix. Anyway, here's a 2nd attempt @ the link to the online photo album....

http://www2.snapfish.com/share/p=338221245691419494/l=2389286007/g=60155343/otsc=SYE/otsi=SALB

Thank you,
Shayne
-------------

S Mc/Sylvia and other kind and helpful experts on this site, here are pix I snapped 6/4/09 around 2 p.m. EST. The front of our house is almost parallel to the east-west compass points. To orient you to the pix, the first ones I shot (facing towards our house) were from southwest of the Ash tree...

http://www2.snapfish.com/share/p=1441244149828077/l=1930646007/g=60155343/otsc=SYE/otsi=SALB

Please forgive me for any lack of clarity or my inability to know exactly what might make a good diagnostic shot... I tried to capture some dead and mostly dead dead branches but they are difficult to distinguish from the rest of the branches and canopy. Also, please forgive the weeds and the dead phlox (I'd causally tossed the latter at the base of the tree this spring when moving it from somewhere else in our garden; I didn't particularly care if the phlox made it... I was kinda testing how resilient it was by my conscious lack of care in transplanting it).

I looked all over the trunk for any holes and only found one... seemed "D" shaped, though (EAB!?) :-( I didn't see any holes on the lowest branch that is completely dead, although I did take two pix of that branch's underside.

Anyway, curious as to what you all think and recommend...

Thanks,
Shayne