Autum care

[murphy4trees]

Got the info on Autum care from the Sherrill website:
Autumn Care/6-12-12/2.5 gal. bottle
Improve the health and appearence of trees with Growth Products' safe and effective Autumn Care! This easy-to-use, high quality liquid has an extremely low salt index. With an exclusive source of slow release nitrogen, Autumn Care HAS NO PHYTOTOXICITY. Autumn Care (6-12-12) with 40% SRN (2 1/2 gallon). Fall to early winter. Application: trees, ornamentals and vines (1 gallon of product per 100 gallons of water) = Mixture. Apply 5 gallons of Mixture per inch of trunk diameter ALSO AVAILABLE in 30, 55 gallon drums and 275 gallon Mini Bulk! Call for bulk pricing!

Does anyone out there use this stuff?
I believe these chemical based fertilizers throw the soil out of balance and actully are harmfull to the health of trees.. especially trees under stress..
Was suprised to see Sherrill promoting it....maybe they are overstocked..
God Bless,
Daniel

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Low salt is good, but I'm against using NPK only, even if it is an 8% N.

spiking just three elements has no scientific basis in woody plant care. Some new lit. is showing that it can be harmfull. People just borrowed from annualy crop studies that were bsed on real fertility, ie seed production.

The statementr that the tree can find the rest of it available in the soil if we spike the NPK is like fingernails on a chalk board to me.

Broad spectrum, plant based products seem to be the best route, especialy when dealing with a plant that did not evolve in the niche we are placing it. Turffed landscape.

 

[murphy4trees]

JPS,
I've been thinking that for years and the science has caught up...
Too much N will get your tomato plants catching aphids.. The holistic perpective would be the chemicals throw the soil off balance.. weakens the plant.. insects attack the weak.
So it appears the marketing folks are the last to get it...
Sherrill's website claims it will "Improve the health" of trees... Will someone please tell Toby.... Also thought the science about P&K doing nothing for trees has been clear for almost 20 years..
Guess the money keeps talking.
God Bless All,
Daniel
PS... heard in a health lecture that nitrates as fertilizer only became widespread after WWII because the explosives industry needed a place to go with their production capacity. Now it's clear that their use has done huge damage to soils.. water etc.. really hurt farming and the food supply.

 

[Acer]

Originally posted by murphy4trees
.... Also thought the science about P&K doing nothing for trees has been clear for almost 20 years..
Guess the money keeps talking.

Daniel,

Do you have any more information on this, eg references? Not contradicting you, but I always thought P&K was important.

Cheers, Nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You guys are ripping on sherrill just for<I> selling</I> fertilizer???
The fertilizer arguement has taken your opinions to the opposite end of the spectrum, and that's a disservice.
There are many cases where applying NPK formulations is clearly beifcial to trees. I'm not talking about high nitrogen applications to every tree, I'm talking about properly dosed applications and only where needed.
I also diagree with dumping expensive broad spectrum "cure all" formulations. Too much of certain chemicals is as bad as too little. Just like pruning, I like to have a reason before taking action.

 

[treeclimber165]

There may be conflicting evidence on fert., but what I can't understand is why Sherrill still sells pruning paint. There must still be some misguided souls still buying it, or else they wouldn't carry it. Perhaps those guys figure "They still sell it, it must be good".

 

[TREETX]

I have to agree that fertilizer definitely has its place. Sherrill has been so helpful with tips, that I am suprised they don't mention the fact that fertilizer is needed when there is a diagnosed nutient defficency. I thought the industy was moving against broadcast fert applications.

Old mature, healthy trees do not need it. They need all of their CHO (carbohydrate) reserves for maintaining. Adding a bunch of N shifts those CHO reserves towards growth and away from maintenance and defense. Plus like murph mentioned, they can be insect magnets, compounding this problem.

To some extent, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the tree is declining, see if it is the right species for the site. Using fert to extend a terminal situation is pointless. Knowing a lot about your soil when planting can help to avoid nutient problems in the future.

It is the arbo's decision. Many offer it and info as a service to clients but still too many use it as a way to ring the cash register.

Sherrill has done a really good job at meeting customer demands. I'm sure they will do a lot to help Arbo's with fert applications in the future.

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[Top it]

Pruning paint also has it's place.
We use it on cuts and storm repair in the growing season to help prevent Oak Wilt infection.

 

[seanlarkin]

I contacted the National Sales Manager for Growth Products, and directed him towards this thread. His response was, "For several decades trees have been fertilized in such ways. Some people take the approach of organics, some take the approach of Prescription Application (add each nutrient as needed) and some take the approach of relying on a blended product for them. Each one of these application ways have there benefits. To dislike an application because it does not fit into their way of doing business, is an opinion and not a factual statement.

For every reference I find in our favor there will be a reference to dispute the claim, if you take the time to research them."

and then, "for every University test data that is against fall fertilization, there is University data stating that this analysis is appropriate"

He makes some good points.

-Sean

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

If you are worried about dose, at the recomended rate, a 10" diameter tree only gets about a quarter pound of nitogen.
That ain't much.

 

[TREETX]

I am being nice and objective here, I promise.

"To dislike an application because it does not fit into their way of doing business, is an opinion and not a factual statement"

Ringing the cash register on people is not my way of doing business so brodcast fert is something I don't do. Ripping off customers is not my way of business, sorry.

I will agree that broadcast apps are great for giving a customer the warm fuzzies and I suppose that is worth something. That is selling warm fuzzies and not tree care.

Excess N, like all N is highly mobile and will go where the water goes so in general, excess is just excess and will be picked up by our streams.

Mr. Manager did not seem to back any argument including his own. Seems kinda apathetic towards the product he is selling or he is just being careful not to step on any toes.

I am not an organic freak, I am just a supporter of thinking and simply asking WHY?

Before getting into tree work, I worked contract as an analytical chemist for Abbott, Lilly, and Pfizer, so I am not completely lost when it comes to chemistry.

I hope I didn't step on any toes, especially Sean's since he is really being a help by making these contacts and asking questions himself.

Thanks - Nate