Backed out

[Stumper]

I just had a job that I backed out of. Old Siberian elm with one dead lead and one live. I was supposed to take out the whole thing then they decided to just take the dead side. Powerlines on one side (not too close) and a shed on the other maybe 16 feet from the trunk and another shed right next to the tree so it was a piece it out job. I tapped on the base of the dead stem and it sounded okay but when I started to climb it is was danceing an awful lot for something of its length and diameter. I backed down aand decided to rig my climbing line in the live side and swing over onto the dead. -Not a convenient tree for that but workable. I started up the live side and got about 20 ft up and found a hollow where an old limb had torn off. I'm stopped there inspecting it when a little breeze come through. Suddenly I am hearing creaking and groaning sounds! There was a big barkless section above me where another big limb had torn out. As near as I could determine there was a longitudal split between the dead and live portions of the trunk and it was twisting and rubbing in the breeze. I descended and told the owner that I was backing out and suggested that he get a bucket truck in there to remove the whole thing. The tree had been standing there through repeated 50mph winds recently. It probably would have been fine but.... I'm a chicken. The owner was nice about it.

 

[treeman82]

Live to fight another day.

 

[tjk]

I walk away from about 2-3 jobs a year, and than have to argue with a sales rep, but I always win. You got to go home everyday.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I rarely walk away from a job; If I do, it was usually because the job was way underbid.

If a Tree Expert can't do the job, who is supposed to do it?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Been, there done that; gotta walk...........while ya still can!

My ownly trick for cracks along length is binding with pressure to maintain roundness. i use common truck ratchet with webbing tiedowns. Or, a few times have further fortified tree with a 3/1 system powered by comealong against the lean. Where the pulley on weak tree goes, i put a sling, right on the crack; so that it fortifies the crack (so it can't shift) and supports tree at the same time. i have found it best to use come-a-long to pull line into Porty, so ya can wrap off on Porty, and get anopther pull with come-along.

Before climbing, make sure come-a-long is at full extension. For in this position, ground pilots can take up inevitable slack in system as you take weigth off the other side, and tree sits up towards support some. So all they do is give come, along a few cranks. Especially important if system is giving support to tree, and compressing crack into place to fortify.

Though, that is not for every situation; everyone must have enough of themselves forward, to make such calls as they see fit!

:alien:

 

[tjk]

The reason I walked away is because we did not have the proper equipment to do it. We return with the right equipment and SAFELY complete the work.

 

[SilverBlue]

Sounds like you made the right call Stumper. I respect your decision.But could you hire a bucket truck yourself?
Rob.

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
If a Tree Expert can't do the job, who is supposed to do it?

Maybe nobody, and you never no for sure...until afterwards. I think that's when bad things happen is when you go in to every job thinking you can get it done no prob.

love
nick

 

[MasterBlaster]

No problems? Who said there would be no problems?

Whaddoyado? Let the tree do what it wants to do?

Allmost every problem has a solution - ya just gotta figure it out.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

.......and i love the puzzle and challenge; doing something so much better than 8 mos. ago et al. Testing all theories at that outer arc lf reach, expanding from it all; just mentally; not by gittin'splattered

Just got to keep the SWL's high in all fashions; and admit you're not superman, nor do you need to take every challenge; gut says no; ya don't go! IMLHO, even to trusting that to the point of beleiveing it can pick up on some stuff; that you conciously don't.

i think it is okay, and safer; to shave that last .75% of highest risk jobs off, and feel good, that risk for year just dropped 20% or whatever. Maybe a bucket or crane won't get close enough, no other high anchors/supports, can't fell, can't brace to ground, and helicopter is rented out already.............. specially in questionable rotten/fractured wood or poor root anchoring; this changes everything.

Ants can be pretty good with matchstix, but are still carefull, and choose their targets; or else that band of werkers gets thinned!

"......Never forget that you but run a bluff around ferocity, to distort it to your bidding" even as you force it to help in it's own demise..... "but, never giving it the upper hand......"

Or something like that!
-:alien:

 

[timberfell]

I feel that knowing your limitiations may be one of the greatest assests of a climber.

Not being too proud or too macho to walk away from a job that is either out of the capacity of you and your equipment or unsafe, says a lot about you.

Thats my mentality anyhow.

Kurt.

 

[Stumper]

Silverblue, That is a fair question -about renting a bucket myself. It wasn't practical in this situation. No rentals are available in the town where the job is. The price wouldn't support renting and transporting one almost 100 miles. Deep down I was already regreting taking the job but was set to "just get it done". When extra safety issues arose I decided that cutting my losses was the best course. (Yeah, to top it off this was an out of town deal for me.) Things work out though. I was parked on the shoulder making a couple of phone calls when a couple in a pickup pulled up beside me and asked if I did trees-got a $200 prune to do before going home so I didn't take a complete loss on the day!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I walk away from a few a year, usually because the primary contractor screwed it up. I have postponed a few so that the primary can get a lift in.

I hate big old box elder, I've had some pretty substantial limbs crack out under me. Ailanthus is not much better.

If you dont do big hairy removals all the time, then let someone else take care of them. Bid high and walk away.

Sean Gere likes to say "some jobs should just be left to the crews with five $6 an hour people hauling it out in small chunks."

 

[TREETX]

Paycheck is no good to a dead man.

The safety of a tree has nothing to do with the abilities of a climber. Not all trees are safe to climb.

 

[NeTree]

Respect your gut... if you feel that strongly a tree isn't safe to climb, it probably isn't. Better safe than sorry!

While I haven't had to walk away from too many, I don't regret scrubbing them one bit.

 

[TREETX]

I usually bid my way out of these situations.

 

[mmayo]

high risk business

I did'nt realize the magnitude of it until just recently. Tree work can be dangerous but when done with cauton and respect should be relatively safe. In this months TCI mag there are some stats that have really opened my eyes.
"The all-industry mortality rate-that is, the fatality rate of all occupations in the U.S. combined - varies between 4 and 5 per 100,000. Very few industries have a fatality rate above 30 per 100,000. Unfortunately tree work is among them though not many people realize this." Dr. John Ball
Dr. Ball goes on to say that your chances of being klled on the job are 1 in 3000 in any given year, and as the years go by these stats stack against the tree worker. I was blown away to see the stats this high, and these stats do not include the lndscaper who occasionally takes on a tree job. Just a little reminder to take care of ourselves and trust our intinct- the most powerful tool we have!:angel:

 

[geofore]

elm

Elm are dangerous, to walk to cut another day is to have limits that save your life and limb. I have cabled the spars together to hold them, wrapped the trunk to keep the cracks from opening up as the weight came off and as you did, tell the customer to get a bucket truck to come in because it isn't safe to climb. You can guy them to other trees but that makes them a little safer to climb but if you don't feel safe you and your gut is telling you to get out of the tree listen and get out of the tree because your preformance is not 100% if you are worrying about the tree coming apart under you as you make your cuts. The chances are the tree will get you in this situation. When you are in a hazzardous tree you need to be 100%.

 

[Burnham]

The climber who hasn't walked away from a tree hasn't seen enough trees yet. You'll seldom die from caution, Stumper. I think you absolutely made the right call for you on that day.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by timberfell
I feel that knowing your limitiations may be one of the greatest assests of a climber.

Can take some of the stress off yourself here; for cracked, decayed, weak base are tree compromises as is even weak species of wood that might not rig the same as oak. But yes, knowing; when your mechanical and personal tool base does not fit the situation is another way to view.

Not being too proud or too macho to walk away from a job that is either out of the capacity of you and your equipment or unsafe, says a lot about you.

Yeah, that you've already proved yourself, to yourself; and also have other things to do besides what you know you shouldn't.




There is a point, that stepping outside the comforte zone can be expansive, even coached by another. But as time comes, you are your own coach; you must make the decision to send your bod in or not. i'm thinking Stumper has shown this kind of seasoning.



For years after setting a rig, and trying to draw diagrams in my head of what was going on, pushing and testing different components, trying to screech the most power and lesson from each move...... i would set back on the branch and calmly and relaxedly scan the setup rig. i did this to call and build an internal gut feeling for what is right. Then, if some signal didn't back me off; would cut and watch, usually in slow motion, absorbing that in too. i believe such 'instincts' can be exercised and grown; also that they like to be trusted. i think that it has brought me a long way, and alive. My philosophies have all lead me to believe, that there is a less concious intelligence in us; that holds more, and is in tune with more, than the 10% we do use......

So, i've reached out to tap that, Cuz this is dangerous werk, employing natural forces that are in all ways and always much bigger than us. Much worse than pitting an ant against a matchstick, wee against the wood! so this gut feeling is another tool, friend and ally; sometimes my best friend, tool and ally for thee day!

And, one of the assumptions (refer to Odd Couple episode; see; i didn't make that up about braking words a-part! ); is soundness of base, and spar; something compromised in either of these important structural departments, sets itself outside of the 'ordinary' parameters of most scope and training.

"If the 'seasoned' gut says no; we don't go!" Maybe a new team cheer!

Orrrrrr something like that!
Deuce!
:alien: :alien: