Bar length

[NOMOREGEARS]

Like this site very much! It's a good knowledge base. I do not use a saw in my profession but I own a 034 AV and an 038 AV. Cut nearly 8-10 cord of firewood a year (2 houses). I run a 20" bar on the 34 and like the balance. I find myself reaching for the 34 over the 38 due to power vs weight. My 38 has a 24" bar. Both run great(2 pulls) and cut like there is no tomorrow. I notice most of you run (IMHO) longer bars than the average joe. Do you feel a saw has better balance with a longer bar (vs. an 18" bar) and is safer? I find I have to bend over less with the longer bars. Less fatigue? Is it a personal choice?
I included a pic of the latest tree that was downsized with both saws. A split leaf Maple that showed quite a bit of rot. the local power company took the top off and left the rest. My 75 year old Dad still gets a kick out of making chips.
thanks

 

[computeruser]

Welcome to Arboristsite!

I think that part of your observations about the use of longer-than-average bars comes more than anything from the fact that the guys and gals here tend to run saws that are bigger than average! The other part is that a lot of guys on here are west coast guys, where long bars are the norm, with their large softwood trees and all.

Myself, I find that big motor/small bar is preferable most of the time. 80cc and 20" makes for efficient work on the smaller hardwoods that make up most of my cutting. In the bigger wood, longer bars obviously help, though. The argument for longer bars saving the back and cutting down on bending may be true, but when I try to use the bar to get added reach, for some reason all I end up doing is sticking them in the ground!

Looks like you've got the makings of some good firewood in that pic you attached! I brought some maple just like that home a couple weeks ago. It was the same story, too - power company took the top, left the trunks. Someone had dropped the trunks and left 'em sitting in this old lady's yard for two years, despite having been paid to remove them. They were a pain to load into my trailer by myself and were an absolute bear to split, but made for some great ready-to-burn firewood!

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Here's a thread I started on long bars a while back. They are the norm out here, and most guys run 034/036 with 24" and don't think twice.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=30994&highlight=long+bars

Myself, bar balance is almost of no concern. Once the bar is in the cut, the kerf takes the load of the bar and saw, and it's balanced. I could have a 48" bar on my 361, and if it's in the cut, I don't feel the weight of it. In the woods, I carry the saw over my shoulder, so again, balance, and how the tip rides isn't really of concern to me. I'm not a big fan of the "long bar so I don't have to bend over" school of thought. Not that I'll discount it for others, but for me, it's more comfortable to bend at the knees and get lower like that, than to reach for the wood, trying to stand upright the whole time. A 28" bar in firewood will get you tired at the end of the day no matter how you cut with it. Some guys like it that way, and that's fine.

The only time bar length and balance is of concern to me is climbing. Then it'll matter when you're trying to balance up in a tree and one-hand your 200T. (Did I say that?)

Welcome to AS.

Jeff

 

[Lakeside53]

I try to run the shortest bar I can most of the time... I ran an 034S for years with a 16 inch bar. Cut GREAT in 12 inch alder. I put the 24" on as required.

Now, as my collection has grown, I just reach for the saw with the right length bar... taped: Mostly though for general cutting, I like my 361 with a 20... but have used a 28 on it (full skip) and it runs great.

 

[NOMOREGEARS]

Thanks

Thanks for the replies. So I guess it's just by luck I hit on a good combination for me. The 034 was purchased in 1990 and has run great without a problem. The 038 was a later purchase.We cut a lot of Oak and Ash here in the notheast with a bit of cherry, maple and hickory thrown in. I run a bandsaw mill that I made. Works good by the way. We cut mostly white pine that comes from small woodlots. I copied the Enerpac Mill to a tee. Well almost.
Only wish I could get some of the big western firs you guys cut and mill them down. Jeff thanks for the link to your other post. I'll post more pics in the future.

 

[motti]

There was a discussion not too long ago about bar length, and someone asked if there was a way of figuring engine size to bar length. I remember them saying it was decent to figure about 1/3 of the engine's CCs would be about the maximum length for a bar. Is there a formula to figure out an engine's CCs?

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Bore area times stroke times number of cylinders, OR,

3.14 times (1/2 Bore diameter)^2 times stroke times number of cylinders, OR

(that's pi times the square of 1/2 of the bore diameter.)

(All units should be in centimeters)



If you have the displacement in cubic inches, multiply by 16.38706. 1 Cubic Inch = 16.38706 Cubic Centimeters.

 

[clearance]

Got a 16" on my MS 200, a 28" on my 371XP for falling and bucking firewood. Anything under 24" is too small for a ground saw, so is anything under 60cc., thats just me.

 

[Four Paws]

There was a discussion not too long ago about bar length, and someone asked if there was a way of figuring engine size to bar length. I remember them saying it was decent to figure about 1/3 of the engine's CCs would be about the maximum length for a bar. Is there a formula to figure out an engine's CCs?

I was just thinking about asking a similar question - about ideal saw/bar combos for versatility. If you guys could have any 3 saw/bar combos what would they be - that is, what size saw (cc displacement) and what size bar (sprocket or solid nose)? No need to get into brand preference as we all have our favorites. Remember, I am just a recreational wood-cutter at the moment. Although I would love an 090 or 3120 with a 36"+ bar, I have no need for a saw that big other than for grins:biggrinbounce2:

I was thinking about these combinations - let me know what you think, and what bar sizes you feel would be best/most appropriate:

Limb saw - 35cc to 40cc, 12" to 14" bar.
All around saw - 50cc to 60cc, 16" to 20" bar.
Felling / blocking saw - 75cc+, 24" to 32"

 

[046]

one of my fav saws was Stihl 034 super! mostly wore a 20in bar, 24in felt a little under powered. don't get me wrong, 034 would pull a 24in bar, just slower.

mostly hardwoods here. sold off my 034 after getting an 046 and a 460.

now I run 046 with 20in bar and 064 with 24in. those length bars feel right for me for those two saws.

 

[pallis]

Most of the stuff I cut is under 20 inches, so I run 20" bars on my big saws and 16" bars on my small saws, and keep a longer bar in the truck. For me it is a safety and practical issue. Shorter bars are easier to handle in brush and on uneven ground.

 

[SawTroll]

I like the 15" bar on my MS361 for most use, but often use an 18" for felling. Allmost all my wood is less than 20" though ......

The saw feels more agaile for limbing and bucking with the 15" on it, and I don't mind a little bending, even though my back is really bad.
I also have arthritis, and is too short for my weight....

 

[West Texas]

I have two 361's; one with 16" and one with a 20" bar.

 

[SawTroll]

..... The only time bar length and balance is of concern to me is climbing. Then it'll matter when you're trying to balance up in a tree and one-hand your 200T. (Did I say that?)
....

How about when limbing, and bucking the smaller parts of the trees - don't you do that???
:deadhorse:

 

[Four Paws]

I need a new bar and am wondering if I should buy a 12" or 14". Any suggestions for a 35cc saw dedicated to limbing / clean-up?

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

How about when limbing, and bucking the smaller parts of the trees - don't you do that???
:deadhorse:

When limbing I'll typically use my 361 with a 24". Depending on tree size, I'll walk down the falled tree and limb as I go. I'm not going to walk a tree with and bend over with an 18" bar. Find any West Coast timberman who's limbed anything in the last ten years or so, and he'll tell you that an 036 (nowadays a 361) with a 24" or 28" is his favorite combo (if he's a Stihl man). If it's too small to walk it, I'll walk along side it and limb from the side. The 24" and a full wrap make that a breeze all from one side. It also comes in handy when the tree is falled into a brush tangle, and I can't feely move from side to side. It's nice to be able to cut from either side of the saw. The 361/24" balances nicely for me. Maybe not dead level, but no more than 15 degrees nose down. The saw handles really well, and is comfortable to use.

If I have to limb with my 660 and a 32" or 36", well I should have brought the 361 with me!

 

[NOMOREGEARS]

Limbing and bucking

I like the 034 for limbing with the 20" bar. Suits me well, but I see everyone has their favorites. I just picked up a mint 038 super. I do mean mint. The paint isn't even worn off underneath. Started in two pulls. Couldn't pass this one up. The guy also had an antique saw that I've never seen before.
In my wood lot, I generally do everything with the saw I'm carrying. Most of the firewood trees run 30" and under. The timber trees run up to 36" and it's mostly white pine. (Small for you west cost guys).
I like getting in the woods and doing my thing but I don't envy you guys that use a chain saw for a living. You have my blessings and respect.
Thanks again for the replies.

 

[SawTroll]

Hello jeff, I can see you are online.
I am just back from a 5 week vacation, and read your last responce in this tread yesterday.
Again, the vastly different conditions we cut under, and the different wood, dictates our views.... :sword:


On our birches, we have to mostly cut one limb (deliberately) at a time to avoid pinching. "Sweeping" is usually only possible close to the tops.
Conifers are a totally different story.

Edit;
One more thing; Not much of the limbing is performed close to the ground, due to the large and wide limbs. Knee to head hight is more usual.

 

[314epw]

Just for grins!

Remember now,"Just for grins" is and can be very ,very good for your mental health!
Ed

 

[turnkey4099]

Most of the stuff I cut is under 20 inches, so I run 20" bars on my big saws and 16" bars on my small saws, and keep a longer bar in the truck. For me it is a safety and practical issue. Shorter bars are easier to handle in brush and on uneven ground.

My cutting is in softwood with butts from 20" to about 36". I run three saws:

Husky 51 with 16" - just right for trimming and limbing

Stihl 310 with 20" - does majority of bucking

Stihl 041 with 24" - Most of the felling and some bucking of the big stuff. Not a fan of bucking with it due to speed but it is fun to run.

Harry K