Bark peeling off chokecherry tree, pic

[gbig2]

We noticed the bark started peeling off over the winter. Is this anything to be concerned about or is this a normal thing for this kind of tree? The bark is peeling off the north side of the tree.
Thanks
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3453845262/" title="000_0693 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3453845262_5ab63870d4_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0693" /></a>

 

[buzz sawyer]

We noticed the bark started peeling off over the winter. Is this anything to be concerned about or is this a normal thing for this kind of tree? The bark is peeling off the north side of the tree.
Thanks
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3453845262/" title="000_0693 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3453845262_5ab63870d4_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0693" /></a>

Nope, not normal. Looks like it started from the bottom - up. One problem is the root flare is covered with mulch. Pull the mulch back and see how deep the tree is buried and do some searched on root flare to see some examples of the correct level. All those little suckers don't look right either.

 

[banjobart]

It may have absorbed a lightning strike.

 

[John D]

Ditto,thats what i was thinking.I get trees struck constantly on the golf course. I dont think that tree has much time left...

 

[S Mc]

I was getting ready to say sunscald until you said north side of tree. Another consideration is that the sunscald occurred in the nursery prior to planting and is just showing up. This is an older injury (at least a few years). The bark is just now coming off and revealing the damage.

The adventitious growth, both from suckering up from the base, and the epicormic growth on the limbs shows a lot of stress. And yes, the tree is planted too deep; although a tree this young won't show a lot of flare you should still be able to find the main roots coming out of the trunk just at the planting surface.

Chokecherries, depending on the cultivar, will send suckers up at the drop of the hat; but on this tree, IMHO, is a sign of extreme stress.

Will it live? Probably. As chokecherries will regenerate from sucker growth. However, is this an area you want a grove rather than a single specimen?

Is it worth saving? That will be your call. It might be just as well to get another, better specimen and get it in the ground rather than dealing with the dieback and subsequent suckering that is going to occur.

If you do opt for a new tree, go to a reputable nursery (rather than a big box store) and scrutinize it. Is the bark a uniform color? Does the trunk have any indents or unusual appearance such as a flat spot? Is there tip die back? If balled and burlapped or container, ask how long it has been in that state. These are only a few of the many things to look for but don't be afraid to really grill the nursery personnel.

You obviously care about your tree as you provided it a wonderful mulch ring in an expanse of grass. So I wish you good luck in whatever your decision will be.

Sylvia

 

[gbig2]

Thanks for the help!
Yes, we were trying to keep it as a single specimen. Although, we could let it bunch up if it would help keep the tree alive?
Is there anything I should do to increase the chances of survival. Should I wrap it?
Here are some more pics:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3456343753/" title="000_0693 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3499/3456343753_fd90f32ce2_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0693" /></a>

The tree has been in the ground for 20 months. It was put in by my nursery guy. He told me those sprouts at the base were normal and to cut them off as close to the ground as possible. The encouraging thing is that it has leaves, although the bottom branches don't have leaves yet. So it's not dead yet.
Some more pics:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3456290867/" title="000_0708 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/3456290867_4b6d93df4f.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="000_0708" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3456294599/" title="000_0697 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3583/3456294599_387279f4b2.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="000_0697" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3457108120/" title="000_0707 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/3457108120_e7e6e903d5.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="000_0707" /></a>

 

[S Mc]

Some chokecherry cultivars sucker at the drop of a hat. So your nursery guy was not totally incorrect in stating that the suckering was typical. However, this injury is older than the tree has been planted. The callus growth on the wound tells us that. It has just now become visible.

However, this tree is by no means dead. And you can certainly continue to cut off the sucker growth. Planting chokecherries too deep only encourages the natural suckering tendency. So if you are going to keep this tree, dig around the trunk, carefully, until you find the first major structural roots. Let's see what that looks like. You shouldn't find any burlap or twine still tied up against the trunk; nor any girdling roots. These would be definite red flags.

There is no point in wrapping or treating this injury at this point. It is way too late for any remediation. The tree is taking care of isolating the dead tissue itself.

In this last photo there is a light brown, powdery looking substance on the ground. May I ask what that is?

Sylvia

 

[Rftreeman]

Ditto,thats what i was thinking.I get trees struck constantly on the golf course. I dont think that tree has much time left...

double ditto.....

 

[gbig2]

So apparently lightning can hit a tree and only do damage to the bark? That's interesting because when I think of lightning hitting a tree I envision the tree split in two, etc., but I guess not. That's scary because that tree is fairly close to the house.

Syliva, that's just dirt at the surface. I pushed the mulch away from the truck and dug it up a little with my hands.
I'll try to go out tomorrow and dig around the trunk and post the pics.


Thanks

 

[John D]

So apparently lightning can hit a tree and only do damage to the bark? That's interesting because when I think of lightning hitting a tree I envision the tree split in two, etc., but I guess not. That's scary because that tree is fairly close to the house.

Syliva, that's just dirt at the surface. I pushed the mulch away from the truck and dug it up a little with my hands.
I'll try to go out tomorrow and dig around the trunk and post the pics.


Thanks

I think the damage is more extensive than just the bark. I had lightning hit a mature cherry tree a few yrs ago,and literally blew an entire main leg about 12" in diameter,along with 1/3 the total canopy about 50 ft from the tree,some of the wood exploded,and was over 200 ft away.The tree died within 2 years,the damage was extensive. I also had a stump hit by lightning,the stump split in a few pieces,and burnt for about 2days,very slowly smoldering.Your lucky it was just the tree,and not your home.Im not sure if you;d even want to claim it on your homeowners,but you probably have coverage for it,with your duductible of course.Personally,I'd eat it,and plant a new tree this fall.I odnt like claiming small things on insurance.

 

[S Mc]

Lightning is an amazing phenomena and can do "a little" damage (that being a relative term) to exploding a tree. We have seen many lightning struck trees in this area survive for years. I must say, I am unconvinced this is a lightning strike. But that may be irrelevant at this point.

However on this tree the bark was not the only thing affected, as I pointed out you can see the callus growth on the interior attempting to cover over the dead cambium tissue beneath. As the underlying portion of the trunk died, the bark would have become seperated. As the callus growth forms it pushes the bark away, cracking it and exposing the wound beneath.

So, as you propose to do, expose the flare and let's see what else might be going on.

Sylvia

 

[gbig2]

Bark peeling off chokecherry tree

I dug around the tree as best I could without tearing up roots. I don't feel comfortable going any deeper. Issues I see right away:
Tree still has the wire cage around it as you can see in the pics. I also see burlap. Lots of roots at the surface, some on top of the landscape fabric (which I've now removed).
My only questions at this point would be, should I cut the suckers off as low as possible? I'd have to use a saw to cut them off which makes me nervous. I'm assuming when I push the dirt back around the tree I should try to keep it below the level it was? As far as the lower branches with no leaves, should I remove them or leave them on? They are dead and snap right off. Do I cut them off?
Here's a shot before I dug it out:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3473561872/" title="000_0711 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3372/3473561872_ab3303ee7b_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0711" /></a>

After I dug it out:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3473562532/" title="000_0713 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3632/3473562532_1ca03868b5_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0713" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3473562866/" title="000_0714 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3473562866_037e109983_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0714" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3472753103/" title="000_0712 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3383/3472753103_32d5de79e7_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0712" /></a>

 

[gbig2]

Sorry about the big pictures. I should have used the medium size.

 

[treeseer]

Big pictures are good. take a trowel/hose and dig/wash away the dirt near the stem and the suckers, then clip them where they originate. you still have not found the flare, where the big roots come off the trunk.

Replace the mulch that was away from the trunk, after you clip those suckers.

Yes removing the dead branches is good, then you can remove the dead bark over the wound, so you can see how big the wound is. then another pic after you do all of the above?

 

[S Mc]

As Treeseer said, you are not there yet. These photos are actually excellent visual examples of adventitious roots. Trees will produce these in an attempt to replace primary root systems that are buried too deep. Some trees will produce them even above ground given a scuffed bark and damp environment. But where these are enough to give the tree some nutrients they are not structural roots.

Typically, with a balled and burlap tree, you can bet that the dirt has been piled around the trunk at least 2". And that is INSIDE the burlap. So if this tree was planted with the burlap still up around the trunk you can count on the main roots still being 3 to 5" deeper.

I'm never crazy about asking a homeowner to remove bark from a wound as you need to be careful to not injure the tree. It has already sealed off this wound. As you don't want to cause new damage, just be careful and excise only the loose bark. Do not go beyond the existing injury.

I'm also skeptical on the prognosis for this tree in your well-maintained landscape. As I said, chokecherries are incredibly tenacious. We have seen the entire trunks stripped by grazing horses and the trees simply come up from sucker growth around the base. But they are not the single stemmed original trees as desired. So in digging down to find the main roots, do not worry too much about doing further injury here. They will either still be alive and functional or not.

If your nursery man is still on your list of service personnel you might want to go on the link in Treeseer's signature. Click on consumer education, go to "New Tree Planting". Copy it off and give him a copy. I am constantly amazed at the number of landscapers and nursery personnel who do not have the slightest idea on how to plant a tree correctly.

Good luck and look forward to more pictures as your situation develops.

Sylvia

 

[gbig2]

Thanks for the replies. I peeled off a little bark. There is this white cotton candy like stuff under the bark.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3474081495/" title="000_0717 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3474081495_919140213d_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0717" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3474889190/" title="000_0716 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3474889190_2453a81c9b_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0716" /></a>

What is that and why would it be under the bark? Does the tree have a disease?
I'll dig deeper tomorrow and post pics. Also, I think my wife and I are open to allowing the suckers to grow and forming more of a clump tree if it increases the chances of the tree surviving? Is it too late to allow suckers to grow since the tree is so big or will it look weird?

 

[treeseer]

Cottony stuff from bugs who are just hanging out; not hurting the tree.

yes the tree would look weird with suckers growing. Sylvia, do you think it is grafted? seems not...

You need still to find the flare, where the main roots come off the trunk.

 

[S Mc]

The following quote is from a pdf from Montana State University Extension:

"Chokecherries are propagated by seed, suckers, rhizome cuttings, semihardwood cuttings, crown division, grafting onto Prunus padus (nonsuckering) stocks and through micropropagation."

So this species could easily not have a graft.

gbig2 - Do you know what type of chokecherry this is? I can take pictures of suckered out chokecherries in our area to show you what they look like. As I said, I'm not sure it would offer the intended appearance in your particular landscape setting.

As you are adding up factors in making your decision, remember this tree has suffered several insults and has been strongly compromised. This tree will probably survive, but may struggle to do so. It's survival may depend on letting it go to a shrub/clump. It is young and you only have a little time invested in it. So opting for a healthy replacement at this point, rather than invest several more years with a tree that may never achieve your goal, may be wise.

So yes, keep digging and see what we have for roots; how far down they are and what shape they are in. If you are debating leaving this go to a clump, you will want to save some of the select suckers. I agree that the white, cottony substance are just homes for bugs/spiders that are not damaging to the tree.


Sylvia

 

[arbadacarba]

I personally wouldn't waste any effort trying to revive this tree. The proliferation of suckers at the base is a reflection of the overall stress level on the tree as much as any depth concerns. My guess on what has happened is that some polypropylene twine was left around the trunk at the top of the ball and the trunk was damaged in the nursery as it grew after it was initially dug. The reason I say this is I have seen this hundreds of times in poorly run nurseries. If I were you, I would get on the phone to your nurseryman and tell him that you expect a new tree delivered and put in on the house! Proof that he doesn't know what he is talking about is his recommendation that you cut, rather than tear off suckers. If you cut them off they are far more likely to keep on multiplying than if you simply tear them off ( The same goes for watershoots.)

This is a dying tree that never should have been sold to you. You say it has been in the ground twenty months, but the level of healing on the wound suggests that the damage occured before this!( My guess is two seasons minimum of healing based on the bark):bang:

 

[gbig2]

As far as what kind of chokecherry, the nursery guy said it was a Canadian chokecherry, so I don't have any more detail.
Yes, we've seen pictures online of chokecherries that have been allowed to sucker. We are open to letting it sucker and become more bushy if it keeps the tree alive. It was my understanding that by letting it sucker, the tree's energy goes to producing suckers rather than top growth, leaves, etc.?
The other issue is the dead branches at the bottom of the tree. I've attached a pic of the branches. I should saw any dead branches off?
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3476869620/" title="000_0726 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3588/3476869620_618c25321f_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0726" /></a>

Here are more pics after I dug deeper:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3476866576/" title="000_0718 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3660/3476866576_a53b64cb9e_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0718" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3476866980/" title="000_0719 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3323/3476866980_8d6ec677e3_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0719" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3476058733/" title="000_0721 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3297/3476058733_055cb58338_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0721" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3476059475/" title="000_0723 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3400/3476059475_cab8b93b64_o.jpg" width="900" height="1200" alt="000_0723" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/71126519@N00/3476868940/" title="000_0724 by gbig2, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/3476868940_794ee57fae_o.jpg" width="1200" height="900" alt="000_0724" /></a>


And here's a video if it helps. I did my best to keep the camera steady.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN2oxi2qFs0

Hopefully that's deep enough because getting that deep almost killed my back.