Beginners comments about chain sharpening tools

[romeo]

I prefer the black marker, or even blue. Sometimes I get the knuckle blood mixed up with the red sharpie marks.:censored:

 

[Nailgunner]

I use my eyecrometer for the depth gauges. When the chips get a wee bit smaller, file them dudes down a skosh and keep cutting.

This is probably not one for beginners Very easy to make a chain far too aggressive for daily use, as I found out with the loop on my old homelite.

Experience will tell a chap how to do depth gauges by hand, and I don't think I'm at that level yet. If as a veteran it works for you, great, but I don't think I'd recommend it to a n00b for fear of him doing himself a mischief (or at least knackering a chain)

 

[Philbert]

Husqvarna roller file guide: I've got one of these, it's very nice but the "soft" setting on the depth gauge plate is VERY aggressive and made my last chain very bitey. I use the hardwood setting and it's fine. "soft" must be for bread or cheese or something, not proper wood. Apart from that it's good kit.

The roller guides are chain specific, whereas a file holder works with any chain that uses that size file. Roller guides I tried did not work with low profile chain, or low-kickback chain due to the 'bumpers'.

+1 on the black marker. Sometimes use a lumber crayon.

Philbert

 

[WildnCrazyGuy]

Has anyone looked through youtube and found a good instructional video for sharpening a chain?

http://stihldealer.net/videolibrary/OnePlayer.aspx?v=3&vt=3&vb=0&id=3

Hopefully that link works ok. Pretty good info for a beginner... To at least get the idea...

 

[sawinredneck]

And yet another one to Clearance
I have and have used all of the above methods, and more!!
NOTHING beats a hand filed chain, PERIOD!!!
Yes it is hard to learn the "feel" of it, but if you quit before the chain is totally rocked out, you can feel where the chain was cut and how.
I never thought I would learn how to do it without an aide of some sort, but now it's faster, better, and my chains last longer!
I have a Husky 18" bar that I cut down. It's .050" on one side, .063" on the other. Pop it in the vise and start filing.
I do mark my chains with a blue paint marker. I know they are sharp that way. The only ones that I really need it for are the 32" chains.
Use a guide for the rakers, thats fine, but seriously, once you learn how, you will never go back!!

 

[berryman70]

There's been a few pics posted over the years of some pretty slick vise/clamp setups people have made for sharpening chains. I'll see can I find. I made a rudimentary one out of a couple pieces of flat stock.

Here's a chain holder I built, it works good.

 

[Nailgunner]

That's neat. I'll have a go at making one of those.

 

[scotclayshooter]

There was a nice one made from bench planer blades on here somewhere

 

[berryman70]

I prefer the black marker, or even blue. Sometimes I get the knuckle blood mixed up with the red sharpie marks.:censored:

Chain sharpening sometimes = cut hands. I've been wearing mechanic gloves, you still have a good feel of the file, but a lot less chance of seeing red & feeling the hurt later.

 

[Zero Gravity]

I have tried many of the file guide systems. All of them have worked to some degree. The best system that I found is the one that covers the most important angles of chain sharpening. I now use the Husky guide system. It controls the file height, the 10 degree angle and stabilizes the chain link during filing. The only problem with this fixture is the 35 degree angle. You have to reference the file between the edges of the guide to maintain the 35 degree angle. This is not difficult with a little practice. If you screw up it is a not critical error. My saw uses the .325/.050/ narrow kerf chain, so I don’t have any problems with the guide not matching other chains. There are not many suppliers of this size of chain, so the choices are few. With this system I feel it will be a short step to free hand filing.

My comments on the different file guide systems.

Oregon file guide:
Sets the file depth perfectly. The file plate covers the cutter so you can’t see if it is moving. The 35 degree angle is also a reference. The guide does not stabilize the link at all.

Granbee clamp on bar system:
The file depth is the problem with this system. The file tends to ride into the gullet no matter what height you set it. The link is not stabilized well in this system. The guide is complex and slow. The files must be rotated to prevent wear on one side.
ZG

 

[Philbert]

I have tried many of the file guide systems. All of them have worked to some degree. The best system that I found is the one that covers the most important angles of chain sharpening. I now use the Husky guide system.

ZG - are you talking about the cracker-sized frame thing with the rollers ('Husky guide')?

It looked pretty slick when I saw a guy demo one. But then I was given one and found out that it did not work with my chains, and that you need different guides for different chains. They also did not have models to fit all chains (narrow gauge, low profile, some reduced kickback, etc.). Got confusing for me.

Bottom line is that if you find something that works for you, stick with it.

Philbert

 

[Zero Gravity]

ZG - are you talking about the cracker-sized frame thing with the rollers ('Husky guide')?

It looked pretty slick when I saw a guy demo one. But then I was given one and found out that it did not work with my chains, and that you need different guides for different chains. They also did not have models to fit all chains (narrow gauge, low profile, some reduced kickback, etc.). Got confusing for me.

Bottom line is that if you find something that works for you, stick with it.

Philbert

Confusing, definitely! This is a play by the numbers operation. You must have the correct guide for you chain size. There are over 120 different chain sizes now. When I bought my guide I could not get it to work for the first month. The problem was the dealer that I bought the Saw from sold me an incorrect chain for the saw. The guide would not fit completely over the chain. I used the Husky application guide to determine which guide I needed. You can also use the Bailey's cross reference guide to see if your chain can be crossed to a Husky guide. If you get close I would consider filing the chain guide throat to make it fit on a different manufactures chain. Don't give up 90% of all chains are manufactured by Oregon or with Oregon OME parts. You can find a Husky guide that will work for your chain.

Attached is the Husky Bar/Chain/Fitup chart. The bailey's chart is on their web site.
Husky's web site for the guides. http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/node3291.aspx?nid=60909
ZG

 

[woodchopper]

http://stihldealer.net/videolibrary/OnePlayer.aspx?v=3&vt=3&vb=0&id=3

Hopefully that link works ok. Pretty good info for a beginner... To at least get the idea...

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Uniquark]

This is an interesting thread. As a long-time home user without professional experience, I'll toss out my experiences and ask a few questions. Through the years, I have mostly cut firewood, although I also use the saw for pruning and clearing occassional trails. At times, it has been 10-15 cord a year. Other times, I've gone a few years without touching a saw. I'm back to burning wood, so I cut a few cord a year.

The video was interesting to watch. I learned a few things. Thanks for posting it.

I have used a round file to sharpen my chains since I started using a chain saw in my teens. I've never had any problems with it, but I had never used another system, so I did not know if I was missing anything. I recently purchased an Oregon file guide and I'm pretty happy with it. I now feel that I'm coming closer to the right angle on the cutter.
I have found that the chain does not sit tightly enough in the groove to keep it from tipping as I run the file across it. I guess a clamp of some kind would be helpful, but I have always just clamped it with my fingers. That seems to work well enough for me.

I don't count or mark the cutters. The difference between a sharpened and an unsharpened cutter is like night and day, but use another trick to be sure. Every chain I have ever sharpened has two cutters in a row going the same direction. If I start on one of them, I know that I'm done with that side when I get back to those two.

I have one question about the Stihl video. It specifically advocated filing from the inside to the outside, saying that the reverse will ruin a chain. I have always filed from the outside to the inside based on my own analysis. That's how I sharpen a knife or an ax (running the file from the sharp end toward the blade), so why wouldn't I sharpen a saw chain that way? So far, my chains have lasted very well. However, given the number of variables in chain life, that might not say anything. So, what do you all think about filing direction?

I have another question about a recent chain. After using up about half the cutters, the chain started going dull in about three cuts. I can sharpen it back up each time so it cuts nice and easy and makes the big chips, but it's back to saw dust in just a few cuts through a 10" or 20" log. Something is obviously wrong. I think I may have overheated it badly one day when I was tired. I just wanted to finish the the project and I did not feel that I had time to stop and sharpen it.
My question is this. Is the overheating the only likely cause, or should I be looking elsewhere as well? The chain is relatively old and the cutters are now mostly worn down, so I don't mind losing it. But I don't want this to be the sign of times to come with the new chains.

My final question is about new chains. I've never paid much attention before, buying whatever fit at the local hardware store, paying attention to pitch, guage and total length. Given that I'm an accomplished saw user, but I don't do that much cutting, what should I be looking for in a chain? Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[clearance]

First, welcome to the site. I figure you must be doing something right if you have been cutting for so long. Whatever works. What kind of saw do you have? Bar size and all that.

 

[Uniquark]

I'm currently using an 18" Craftsman. That said, I feel a need to appologize. The price was right and the saw was available when I needed it. Unfortunately, that's more important right now and using a "good" saw. It works well enough for now.

 

[clearance]

I would try to get a chain without the safety rakers if you can. But the right chain for the saw. Don't know what is available for that saw. It works for you, thats fine.

 

[Uniquark]

Thanks for the tip, Clearance. What is the advantage of getting rid of the rakers? I understand that they are there to reduce kickback. I'm very careful about letting the tip of the bar touch anything and I'm also careful about keeping myself out of the line of any potential kickback, so I'm not too worried about that. However, I would like to know what I'm gaining by that slight reduction in safety.

 

[Philbert]

What is the advantage of getting rid of the rakers? I understand that they are there to reduce kickback.

Probably no advantage for your type of cutting. 'Non-safety' chain can have better chip clearance in high performance cutting and is faster in bore cutting, but without the benefit you mention.

I have found that the chain does not sit tightly enough in the groove to keep it from tipping as I run the file across it. I guess a clamp of some kind would be helpful, but I have always just clamped it with my fingers.

Maybe your bar is worn and the groove has become sloppy? You can clamp a board behind the bar to back up the chain on the outfeed side of your file, to resist movement and save your fingers.

Every chain I have ever sharpened has two cutters in a row going the same direction.

That is not something to rely on. Chains are assembled in a sequence. Regular (non- skip tooth) chain has a drive link, a right hand cutter, another drive link, a space, another drive link, a left hand cutter, another drive link, another space, then repeats. If the number of drive links in your chain loop is divisible by 4 (56, 60, 64, etc.) is is a 'perfect chain' and will have this sequence throughout the loop.

If you have, say 58 drive links, they will have to pull out a couple of drive links and a cutter, so somewhere in the loop there will have to be 2 right or 2 left cutters in a row to maintain the proper spacing.

It specifically advocated filing from the inside to the outside, saying that the reverse will ruin a chain. I have always filed from the outside to the inside based on my own analysis. That's how I sharpen a knife or an ax (running the file from the sharp end toward the blade), so why wouldn't I sharpen a saw chain that way? So far, my chains have lasted very well.

If it works for you it works for you. When you sharpen a knife, you use a sharpening stone. When you sharpen an axe, the edge is much blunter and you still follow up with a stone.

Think about sharpening your chain cutters under a strong magnifying glass. What are the chances of your razor sharp cutter edge getting caught between the teeth of the file when filing outside in and damaging one or both? Filing inside out, you are only left with a burr on the outside of the cutter, which is quickly removed when you start cutting with it.

When grinding a chain, we are back to a stone, so the direction is less important.

Given that I'm an accomplished saw user, but I don't do that much cutting, what should I be looking for in a chain?

Get a good one and take care of it. Have a couple of chains that you can swap out if you dull one when working so that you can continue to cut. I think that the quality of the STIHL chains are very good, and do not cost me more from my local dealer than the chains at the hardware stores and home centers.

Philbert

 

[Uniquark]

Probably no advantage for your type of cutting. 'Non-safety' chain can have better chip clearance in high performance cutting and is faster in bore cutting, but without the benefit you mention.

Thanks for that information. I'll keep it in mind. Faster cutting is always nice, but I never noticed a need for better chip clearance.

Maybe your bar is worn and the groove has become sloppy?

I don't think that is the issue. I've noticed this with every saw I've ever sharpened from new to very old and from Homelite to Stihl.

You can clamp a board behind the bar to back up the chain on the outfeed side of your file, to resist movement and save your fingers.

Yeah, I could, but I've never seen the benefit over using my fingers. I've never cut myself on a saw regarless of how sharp or dull it was, despite the fact that I usually don't have glove on. I've never understood the warnings about wearing gloves because an item is sharp. I wear glove sometimes because I have to touch a hot chain, but I use caution to protect me from sharp items. It is equally effective for me and does not get in the way of doing what I need to do.

That is not something to rely on. Chains are assembled in a sequence. Regular (non- skip tooth) chain has a drive link, a right hand cutter, another drive link, a space, another drive link, a left hand cutter, another drive link, another space, then repeats. If the number of drive links in your chain loop is divisible by 4 (56, 60, 64, etc.) is is a 'perfect chain' and will have this sequence throughout the loop.

Certainly. I can't dispute your logic. The point of my comment was to offer yet another way to know when one side of the chain is sharpened. As I mentioned, it's just a crutch. None of the chains for the saws I've used have been perfect, but then I have not used a wide range of saws, only about 12" to 18".

If it works for you it works for you. When you sharpen a knife, you use a sharpening stone. When you sharpen an axe, the edge is much blunter and you still follow up with a stone.

Think about sharpening your chain cutters under a strong magnifying glass. What are the chances of your razor sharp cutter edge getting caught between the teeth of the file when filing outside in and damaging one or both? Filing inside out, you are only left with a burr on the outside of the cutter, which is quickly removed when you start cutting with it.

When grinding a chain, we are back to a stone, so the direction is less important.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Now that I understand, I will reverse my sharpening technique. I had not thought about the cutting edge dropping between the teeth of the file. I was only concerned about creating a burr. I also did not expect it to come off when I start cutting.

Get a good one and take care of it. Have a couple of chains that you can swap out if you dull one when working so that you can continue to cut. I think that the quality of the STIHL chains are very good, and do not cost me more from my local dealer than the chains at the hardware stores and home centers.

Thanks for the advice.