Best knot for attaching a snap to load line

[Frans]

I have always used a bowline for this purpose. but with knots using up to 50% of the ropes strength, I am wondering if there is a better knot/hitch(?) to tie. One that would come undone easily, not use up rope strength, and hold for lowering.
Frans

 

[BigJohn]

I don't understand? Why use a snap? Why do you want to untie it? Why not use a a spliced eye if you want a snap. Why use a snap at all? If you need that much strength you may even end up brakeing your snap depending on the snap or at least bending it a bit out of shape. For myself where I am worried about reducing the rope strength on a large limb I like to use a clove hitch. Am I missing something here. How big are these peaces? How much do they weigh? How are you loading these pieces on the line? Its all about how you load the line and what your ground man does to handle the load. Thats just my style when I can get the right ground man.

 

[BigJohn]

Oh what's a load line? I must be new to this.

 

[BigJohn]

One more turn of the rope there and have a clove hitch and then you don't need that fancy snap. No need to torture a cool biner.

 

[BigJohn]

I hear you on saving time. I use the same analogy? spelling may be a bit off but you are right. Like if you save one minute on each cut you make and if make 60 cuts you just did that job an hour faster.

What ever works for some people. We just hear a bunch of stories of breaking side loaded biners. I feel safer with a knot. I know for me I can lace up a limb and tie a bowline just as quick as someone can open and snap the gate on a biner.

As for it being easier for the ground man I can relate to that. I have this one who tries to untie them with big bulky gloves on. I can't even watch.

The best thing a ground man do to impress me is how fast he can get that rope back to me and be ready to lower the next piece.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I just use a bowline. If I need a little weight, I'll tie a MF. Groundmen that can't learn to untie a bowline need to hit the road.
I've never roped with a snap in my life. It just don't seem right.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You can attach the rope to the end of the piece. That way the groundman can just silp it off in like 1.5 seconds.

 

[murphy4trees]

Stack a second loop onto the first before tying your bowline and then pass the tail back up through the top bite....

Double bowline with a yosemite tie off... quick easy, loads well, and can handle plenty more weight than the old standard bowline...

I think the snap has its uses, best with loopies, and will be used more often in the future.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Pshaw. The Bowline rules.

Snaps? How do ya pull a snap outta fork?

 

[murphy4trees]

Use a block... you have tried that... right???

 

[Frans]

I use a snap with a knot attaching it to the rope on ropes I cannot splice. for example I have a 12 strand 1/2, and several high tech kernmantle braids, all of which are unspliceable.
I use slings generally to attach the snap to the log. I dont like to tie knots around the logs unless it is trunk wood because it wears out the rope too fast. Then I have to cut off the ubraided end and make it shorter and shorter.
Rocky made a good point RE: breaking at the hitch/marl.
On the DVD of the "drop test" we broke a 5/8" at the marl, not at the lowering device or blocks or even midline but at the marl.
I like using snaps and slings. They are fast and efficient.
No I use the old steel snaps, and I also have maybe 20 auto locking/ and non auto locking steel biners.
I want to untie it to move it around just a bit sos to distribute wear or if I need to pull it out of the tree. Nothing like getting hit on the head with a steel snap
Frans

 

[BigJohn]

Learning how to tie the bowlin fast may be a good way to go. Its fast and efficient, nothing to wear out or drop. True blue 12 strand is spliceable if that is the rope your are refering to. I had been practiceing laceing up wood since I was in grade school. I can tie up log quicker than I can tie my shoe laces.

Useing a snap is waiting for an accident to happen. Until some designs one that is made specifically for rigging I will stick to the knot. The thought goes through my mind maybe once a day about having a snap but its just not reliable enough yet. Its an appealing idea though. My question is not what knot but what snap?

 

[John Stewart]

Ya Bowline, Running Bowline if the Groundies can't figure that out they ain't going to figure out a triple action steel biner or are we going to digress to a single action aluminum biner for the dum dums!
Proper knots are the only way and there are lots of them!
Teach your Groundies when where and why!
Oh ya SPEED KILLS DEL!!!
John

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Frans,

I know that you understand the limitations of using a knot instead of a splice. Biner vrs. snap too. Everything has it's place.

My favorite way to tie a rope snap on is to make two passes through the eye and then use a double fisherman's [ or whatever name you want to call that configuration] I have no clue about strength loss. I'm with Rocky on this thread, if strength loss is an issue, go bigger. Slings and snaps are the way to go.

Tom

 

[Frans]

Thanks Tom!
I just fooled around with the Dbl. fisherman's knot with two bends around the snap. Looks good, I'll try it out.

Is True Blue 12 strand really splicable? Have I missed something here?
All these years of wanting to splice it and never heard it was done.
True Blue 12 strand is one of my favorite ropes how can I get some instructions on splicing this rope. I splice all the time...
Frans

 

[Ax-man]

Tru-Blue can be spliced, I ordered a splice one time for a Tru-Blue climbing line with one of those big ugly plastic thimbles years ago, from Sherrill.

It was a very sloppy splice, wouldn't hold the thimble in tight like the 16 strand ropes.

I'm not a splicer, but it can be done, the results would be ify and not the most desirable.

Larry

 

[wiley_p]

With a high line angle, and weights under 400# a steel biner tied with a anchor hitch, taped or wrapped off cant be beat for speed, also the weight of the steel biner gives one the ability to tip ty without climbing as far out each branch. if working with a negative block angle and or heavy loads, it depends on my moodrunning bowline, clove with a half hitch back, spreading clove, whatever.

 

[BigJohn]

I heard before that tru blue wasnt spliceable and even seen that Sherrrill wouldn't splice it I guess it was a missprint maybe. I saw it in a Samson catalog and I guess if you go to there website I am sure they have it posted. I use to hate the true blue for lowering since I have modified my rigging and am able to make it more fluent as it comes off.

 

[NickfromWI]

You can splice True Blue. I've done it, but only to see if it was do-able....I didn't use the splice. You will not see splicing instructions for True Blue on the Samson website. They don't want people splicing it. It uses a bastardized version of the three-strand splice where the strands are separated then tucked under another strand, then over the next, under, over, etc.... It is ugly. I have seen True Blue splices for sale in stores, but no one would ever fess up to who the splicer was responsible for doing the splicing.

FWIW, Yale has a great 12 strand line that is the better equivalent to True Blue. They call it Buzzz line and it can be seen on the cover and inside this years catalog

Buzzz Line

The reason I mention this rope is that it IS spliceable and the manufacturer DOES sell spliced versions of it. Might be worth checking out!

love
nick

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

FOr carabiners i like the fishermans too.

For captive eye hardwear, I like a jacked boline, I think it breaks better after heavy loading.

An anchor hitch is okay too, but soemtimes havign the tail hanging out gtes in the way.

I like using a ladder snap whn rigging with a sling, then the groundies don't even have to take their gloves off to free the load.