big dead fir conumdrum

[1I'dJak]

I've walked away from a tree that's really bugging.... It's a big fir tree about 5' or so at the base... had to bust out the 18' strap for it...it was topped 20 years ago at about 110' up...limbing up it i noticed that she was swaying a bit more than i expected it to for the size of the stick...at about 60' up the middle was getting rotten...I figured I'll just chunk it down in small pieces... as I get there up there I bore my saw in and there's maybe an inch or two sound wood...I pull the pin...but it's bugging me...I've limbed it up, save the last few branches so I feel responsible... but I just didn't feel comfortable with the idea of even blocking it down with 30' of pus filled wood below me that has maybe 2 to 3 inches of sound wood. Plus its got a bit of a lean... anybody with some suggestions/experience with situations like this?

 

[1I'dJak]

More... its sound at the but and I don't know if a crane can get in there... I tried tying into a tree behind me, but as i got to the top I was above my TIP and it about 30' away... not a good scene if I gotta abort suddenly with a 660 on my hip...

 

[tree md]

Best I can tell ya is always trust your gut.

 

[clearance]

Jak, with the brass b----, good you stopped. Only thing I can say, is if you are tied in to the other tree and cutting, unclip you scare strap and hold it with one hand while you make the backcut with the other. Not cool, but if she lets go, at least you ain't tied to it. But you would be hurt anyways, falling like that back into the other tree. What is around/under this snaggy p.o.s.?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Good call, it is not unmanly to walk from a job that makes you uneasy in the tree. I will walk from many more then i would have just a few years ago. It is just not worth it any more, poor risk:reward ratio.

So you are tied into another conifer 30 ft away, what happens if you swing into it? Impaled on 3 inch limb?

I do not like any of the supposed "fail safe" safeties I've heard proposed for these scenarios screamers on the belt on SRT on a carabiner below the weak point 10 feet below means a 20 ft fall, what is the math on acceleration & force?

 

[Treetom]

Jak, with the brass b----, good you stopped. Only thing I can say, is if you are tied in to the other tree and cutting, unclip you scare strap and hold it with one hand while you make the backcut with the other. Not cool, but if she lets go, at least you ain't tied to it. But you would be hurt anyways, falling like that back into the other tree. What is around/under this snaggy p.o.s.?

always leave a safe way out. take care, 1I.

 

[1I'dJak]

It leans towards a house...thats why i just wanted to take down small chunks... one of the local tree guys was talking about getting a pull line up top and taking a 10-20' section.... he said that if it held those heavy branches up top it should be able to take the strain...he said thats what they did with a similar tree next door (wasn't leaning though)... I said well would the climber come over and check this one out....Nope, he'll never do something like that again, he tells me...don't blame him... the other option is to fall it, as at the but is sound...and a competent faller could put it between a clump of trees and the house... but everyone poo-poo'd that idea... being afraid of but swing...This bloody tree is occupying my mind all day and night!

 

[tree md]

I would opt to take it in smaller chunks if it's unstable. I wouldn't care for hinging a large piece out of an unstable tree. Tension placed on the spar could make it break over. If I were going to climb it and thought it was iffy I would definitely take it in small bites. I also wouldn't tie in to another tree where I would be above my TIP and chance taking a long swing. That could definitely put a climber in traction. Anyway to get a lift in there to it?

 

[squad143]

1I'dJak,

Chances are you'll always remember this one. But no tree is worth your life.

I've only walked away from one tree (not bragging, just the way it has been). It was a fir (approx. 80' tall), next to and over a boat house, taller than any other tree near it and had been dead for several years. Absolutely no access by crane (not that the customer could afford it). I figured I could limb it on the way up and take small chunks on the way down. I started cutting and lowering the limbs, all seemed to be going well, but at the 40' mark it was like putting the spurs into a wet sponge. I spurred all the way around the tree, climbed a little higher and still soft. Climbed down and re-evaluated the tree, talked it over with my groundie and figured that there was no safe way of taking this tree down, other than cutting the base and dropping it. The only safe landing zone would be the lake, however a deck would have to be removed, plus there was still a good chance of the tree hitting the boathouse, either by the trunk, the butt or if the top snaps off while it is falling. I considered that this tree was too great a risk of doing serious damage and it was not worth it (to me) for any money. I had advised the customer before even starting the tree that it may be too unsafe to rig down.

When I told him that I would not do the tree we discussed his options. He had a friend that could fell the tree and I suggested that he put an anchor in the ice (in the winter) and pull the tree away from the boathouse towards the lake. I advised him of all the possible hazards that I could think of and before leaving I climbed back up and put a wire cable to pull the tree with. I hope to run into him this summer to find out how he made out.

Sorry for the long story. - It was hard to walk away, but I'm safe.

I did not make this situation (customer should have done something about this tree years ago).

Hope this helps. There are other trees.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

any pics of the troubling tree?

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I agree if you don't feel safe then don't do it. Drop it from the ground. Do what you need to do to keep your safety #1. I think you made a wise choice. Climb safe..... Mike

 

[Nailsbeats]

Jak, get your 660 on a separate rope tied back to the tree you are tied into. Hit the chainbrake or kill switch if you have to let it go and make sure it will swing below you. I guess I'd strap in once to the tree ready to release it at a moments notice.

If not, I guess leave it alone.

 

[tree md]

If you can get tied into another tree safely you can use your break away lanyard to strap into the tree. That way you don't have to risk not being able to unclip in time.

 

[jrietkerk]

More... its sound at the but and I don't know if a crane can get in there... I tried tying into a tree behind me, but as i got to the top I was above my TIP and it about 30' away... not a good scene if I gotta abort suddenly with a 660 on my hip...

if the angle is right, what about using that TIP to install a block, and use that as an anchor point to steer the tree? If its 90 degrees from the intended direction of fall, put a rope in the top of your nasty tree, over to the block, and down to a porty. Notch the tree, and as it falls, just ease it down and it will swing over to the landing zone if it wasn't going to go naturally. Maybe the upper portion is too rotten to hold, maybe something stronger lower down where the rope will still work? Sounds like a tough tree. Somebody's going to have to just go for it - glad it isn't me this time. Falling sounds safest for sure - some mercenary faller with a whack of insurance. . .

 

[conlan]

Can you try this?

Can you take the whole top out with a "snap cut"? You will lose some control of where the top falls because you won't have a hinge to guide it, but the snap cut will put very little strain on the trunk below you when the top begins to fall. Maybe you can use a pole with extensions to reach above you and attach a pull rope to help direct the top. I have used the snap cut before when I have had to drop tops from unstable trunks and it does not rock the tree much when they come down. After the top is out, blocking it in little pieces should be okay to do.

How does this sound?

 

[grizzly2]

Can you take the whole top out with a "snap cut"? You will lose some control of where the top falls because you won't have a hinge to guide it, but the snap cut will put very little strain on the trunk below you when the top begins to fall. Maybe you can use a pole with extensions to reach above you and attach a pull rope to help direct the top. I have used the snap cut before when I have had to drop tops from unstable trunks and it does not rock the tree much when they come down. After the top is out, blocking it in little pieces should be okay to do.

How does this sound?

I agree with this being a possiblity, but I'd come down, out of the tree and then pull the top. That way, if it is that unstable, you've removed yourself from the catastrophe equation. Not knowing exactly what your possible targets are and where there located, this might be one of a few options.

 

[1I'dJak]

Thanks for the repsonses & advice... I trusted the spidey senses and walked away from the tree...Said I'd come back and do it it he got a crane & I could hang off the ball...the only tie in point was too dodgy...and I just didn't feel good even taking small chunks...woulda a little more than an inch or so... nowI know why all the local guys passed on the job! Couple of the local guys who passed on it were giving me advice.... set a pull line up top...take a 20' or so chunk and we'll pull it sideways, away from the house... With a skiff off sound wood? Pulling against the lean with rotten stick below me? No thanks guys...

 

[asthesun]

I've walked away from a tree that's really bugging.... It's a big fir tree about 5' or so at the base... had to bust out the 18' strap for it...it was topped 20 years ago at about 110' up...limbing up it i noticed that she was swaying a bit more than i expected it to for the size of the stick...at about 60' up the middle was getting rotten...I figured I'll just chunk it down in small pieces... as I get there up there I bore my saw in and there's maybe an inch or two sound wood...I pull the pin...but it's bugging me...I've limbed it up, save the last few branches so I feel responsible... but I just didn't feel comfortable with the idea of even blocking it down with 30' of pus filled wood below me that has maybe 2 to 3 inches of sound wood. Plus its got a bit of a lean... anybody with some suggestions/experience with situations like this?

call a crane. however i'll tell you this: odds are that if has stood this long, it will continue to stand long enough for you to chunk it down, especially if you already limbed it. if you're worried about it, just cut smaller pieces. dont be afraid to turn it down though, you only have one life.

 

[conlan]

What did you end up doing?

Just curious what you ended up doing with the tree. Did you take it down?

 

[1I'dJak]

THanks for all the advice guys...I did walk away from it....I said I'd come back and do it if he got a crane....so I could use the ball as a tie in point... it was just too rotten at top to be on it and the closest TIP was below where I would be cutting and around 30' away... couple of the local guys who passed on the job were telling me we could get a line on it, pull it sideways (against the lean) while i took it in 20' sections....even with a line on it with an inch or so of holding wood at the cut and below me didn't sound like a good idear...