bigger dogs on 361

[Logjam]

Anyone put bigger felling dogs on their 361?
How do you like them, and where could I get a set.
Looked @ Bailey's but didn't see the right model
Thanks,

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Try this.....post #4


http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=30541&highlight=(part+1135+650+7750

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I don't see the point of big dogs on a small saw. They just eat up valuable bar length.

 

[Logjam]

Mike,
Very valid point!----and agree
However, I'm not totally satisfied with the stock dogs, and I do not cut much if any wood over 20" dia. witch is what the bar length is.

I cut wood to sell it................It's my hobby
Some of it has lose bark.\, but a good center. The stock dogs just can't get deep enough to grab correctly.

 

[Logjam]

Thanks rahtreelimbs
Lottsa info

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Have you tried a slightly lower depth gage setting, or a slightly steeper sideplate angle, on your chain?
Assuming you run your chains razor sharp, both these steps will tend to make the chain grab more, eliminating the need to dog in and pry.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

These dawgs that Stihl sells for the 361 are maybe a 1/4" or so bigger. There is no bar length loss that is worth worrying about!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Some of the guys that want big dogs are the same ones that think their oilers don't put out enough oil, and their bars wear out too fast. They tend to compensate for improperly sharpened chains with brute force, prying against their dogs.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Some of the guys that want big dogs are the same ones that think their oilers don't put out enough oil, and their bars wear out too fast. They tend to compensate for improperly sharpened chains with brute force, prying against their dogs.

No argument there!!!

 

[Logjam]

Have you tried a slightly lower depth gage setting, or a slightly steeper sideplate angle, on your chain?
Assuming you run your chains razor sharp, both these steps will tend to make the chain grab more, eliminating the need to dog in and pry.

Good idea Mike.
With winter upon us. I probably won't change anything, due to frozen wood I'll give it a try this spring.
thanks,

 

[ciscoguy01]

hmmm

Anyone put bigger felling dogs on their 361?
How do you like them, and where could I get a set.
Looked @ Bailey's but didn't see the right model
Thanks,

Build a set dude. When in doubt...

 

[WoodTick007]

Big Dogs = Long Bars

I am curious as to why you would require larger dogs on a 65cc saw? Have you ever tried practicing proper saw and chain maint.? I find that if you know how to operate your equipment properly and sharpen your chains properly that the cutting bar and chain will self feed into the wood with little pressure. The only time I find dogs to be helpfull is went running bars longer than 25 inches.

What size bar are you running on your 361? Do you have your chain sharpened correctly? What depth do you have your rakers set? Please explain the conditions that you are currently cutting that would require larger dogs?

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

I am curious as to why you would require larger dogs on a 65cc saw? Have you ever tried practicing proper saw and chain maint.? I find that if you know how to operate your equipment properly and sharpen your chains properly that the cutting bar and chain will self feed into the wood with little pressure. The only time I find dogs to be helpfull is went running bars longer than 25 inches.

What size bar are you running on your 361? Do you have your chain sharpened correctly? What depth do you have your rakers set? Please explain the conditions that you are currently cutting that would require larger dogs?

Becuase I run my 361 in small to medium timber. It's not a firewood saw. A 24" Doug fir can have rather thick bark. I only own two bars smaller than 24" and they're both for climbing. So I'm always dogging and sweeping. Small dogs, with my front-pointed muffler mod, on a decent diameter tree, with a 24"+ bar just don't work.

I run a 24" on my 361, and never larger. It'd do it, but I've got a 440 for that. My saw and chain maintenance is spot-on, so long bars and big dogs are not compensatory. They're mandatory. I even started a thread about why big dogs are good. A thread as well about long bars. It's a West Coast thing. Don't knock it 'till ya try it....on a 50 degree slope with a 32" dbh tree....all cut from one side.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31040&highlight=bars

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=30994&highlight=bars

Here's my 361-

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Looked @ Bailey's but didn't see the right model
Thanks,

You've got to mod a set for the 044/046/066....if you're looking for a se that large. I think the dual set up from Stihl would work for most guys.

 

[John Ellison]

Some people equate dogs with prying and leverage, but it is more of a pivoting thing. A saw will cut much better when the two points touching the wood are close together rather than several inches apart.
It doesnt matter what size saw your using, if you are falling a tree and your making the diagonal cut and the saw body is touching the tree instead of a dog it will make you wish it were a bit longer.
Even with the perfect chain, and your saw is self feeding into the wood but it is pivoting on the saw body instead of a dog it just isnt cutting the same.

I guess if you are felling or bucking and your dogs are sticking when you need them, they are long enough. But if they are always clogging with bark and slipping when bucking, or will not reach when making a face cut maybe they need to be longer.
Hey, if you are lucky enough to be cutting any thing of any size,, dogged in and letting the saw do all the work is one of the nice "resting" times.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Some people equate dogs with prying and leverage, but it is more of a pivoting thing. A saw will cut much better when the two points touching the wood are close together rather than several inches apart.
It doesnt matter what size saw your using, if you are falling a tree and your making the diagonal cut and the saw body is touching the tree instead of a dog it will make you wish it were a bit longer.
Even with the perfect chain, and your saw is self feeding into the wood but it is pivoting on the saw body instead of a dog it just isnt cutting the same.

I guess if you are felling or bucking and your dogs are sticking when you need them, they are long enough. But if they are always clogging with bark and slipping when bucking, or will not reach when making a face cut maybe they need to be longer.
Hey, if you are lucky enough to be cutting any thing of any size,, dogged in and letting the saw do all the work is one of the nice "resting" times.

Superb post. But would you expect anything less from John?

 

[Logjam]

Right on John !

As I posted earlier, some of the wood I cut has poor bark. So the saw has problem with leverage. I do not force my saws when cutting and am dilegent on keeping the chain as sharp as h$LL. (It's habit, since I am a Machinist)
Just looking for longer dogs to help when bucking.
Thanks everyone for the adivise. Might have to make my own.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Some people equate dogs with prying and leverage, but it is more of a pivoting thing.

This is the only real advantage to long dog that I can understand. Like if you're on a steep hill holding the saw up over your head, you can spike it in and use the dogs as a pivot point, or with really long bars where you aren't strong enough to hold the saw up.

Besides eating up bar length, big dogs can make it harder to reach up over a log, laying on it's side, and then cut back and down towards you. The saw won't just float back, the dogs will keep digging in, making it necessary for you to pull the dogs out, essentially forcing one to use a different style of cutting, namely, dig in and pry.
It is an inefficient way to cut, rocking back and forth to reposition your dogs and pry.

A saw will cut much better when the two points touching the wood are close together rather than several inches apart.

Two points of what? (not trying to be a wise guy, just don't know what you're talking about)

Just to clarify, I don't have any dogs on my little saws, on the medium saws (70cc) I like 1'' or 2" long dogs, and on the big saws with 3' or longer bars, then the big dogs work to help notching, but I still think the only tooth on the dog that needs to be more than an 1 inch or two, is the bottom one.
I also don't know what loose or thick bark has to do with it.

 

[John Ellison]

Mike, I know, sometimes it just wont come out right. Meaning I have trouble saying what I want.

What I mean is like when you are trying to put the diagonal cut in on a notch and your dogs are a half inch away from the tree (wont quite reach) and the chain is cutting, but instead of the teeth working against/with the dogs which are more or less in line with the chain, it is working against the side of the saw which is 4 or 5 inches away. That puts a cockeyed pull on the bar and chain which has to cause extra wear. You have the choise of letting it cut and rubbing the case on that brand new saw or holding it away yourself, more work.
I think everybody has a different style of cutting, but for me the easiest way is using the dogs whenever I can, because thats break time and you can let the saw do the work.
I would not want them any longer than they need to be either, but I cant imagine not having them on any saw used for falling and bucking.

 

[adkranger]

Mr. Ellison is spot on with both of his posts. No trouble understanding either one. One factor not specifically mentioned is that it is far Safer to be cutting, either felling or bucking, with the dogs engaged in the wood. That's what they are there for, else why waste the space and wieght? Many times falling larger or furrow-barked timber I wished to have a more aggressive set of dawgs on one saw or another. Sometimes flushing a stump is a PITA dealing with the root flair, bigger dawgs makes for a easier and safer operation. I'll gladly give up the miniscule bar space for a safer, easier to operate saw. The sharpness of the saw chain, rotation of same and saw power is not what is supposed to hold the saw to wood. The operator does, or is supposed to and the correct dogs for the application make that job easier/safer. You only need to use the sufficient force ("lever") to engage the chain to the wood. Chain sharpness, set up and engine power will dictate the speed at which she'll eat wood. Now I do not like large aggressive dogs on my limbing, small wood bucking saws, but the big wood saws are a different story. :greenchainsaw: My two cents.