Binding contract!

[Local # 17 T.T.]

Hey!

I have an Ash tree that I am going to be removing for a customer tomorrow and I need them to sign some kind of binding contract obligating them to pay for the amount agreed on in the estimate. I need something that can stand up in court and is legal. Any samples would be much appreciated. Thanks!



Mike Davis

 

[Stumper]

Oral contracts are legally binding-just hard to prove. A simple document stating the work to be done and the price to be paid along with the terms of payment (Upon completion, 30 days, $1 per month for 37 years -whatever.) is binding. Legalese really does NOT help. Why are you working for someone you cannot trust?

 

[vharrison2]

Right?

 

[Ekka]

I just copied this from the Nice Looking Bid Form thread

With regard to domestic household jobs I don't know about you guys but I leave a written quote, most of the time the customers phone within a couple of weeks to book in.

All arrangements are made over the phone and we turn up to do the job.

I don't go back to get anything signed etc ... rarely do we get a problem.

I've often thought of all the clauses etc but I think the quote (bid) is a marketing and selling tool so to paste terms and conditions all over it isn't very palatable. Remember, contracts can be verbal as well as written, so when the customer books in just cover a few points like payment, rain out etc.

Take care when listening to people like Dr Ball ... before you know it you'll be a lawyers sher-pa with a bid sheet that looks like a stenographers notes.

With regard to Koa's post about the tree contractor being sued in Hawaii for that fallen pine there is a case because the company had a contract to inspect and inform of problems ... Koa's post copied this from a press article "The contract says the company's qualified arborist "shall be responsible for examining trees for disease, decay in the trunk, presence of termites, dead or dying trees, and it should be reported immediately to the officer in charge." So in this case they did stuff up.

So chill out on all this suing stuff. A lot of it is scare mongering and a lot would get thrown out of court too. Besides, you're not a lawyer and have an insurance company behind you ... focus on your job and sell, sell ,sell ... common sense prevails.

There is tree risk assessment procedures used by many authorities, obviously there was no true criteria for the contractor to operate within either. Now after the crap has hit the fan all the geniuses have the solutions. It starts with identifying the targets first, then the trees and so on ... which is what they are doing now. So there will be part blame on the authority too for failing in it's criteria and procedure ... and the fact that they can do it now shows they had the skills but were negligent in the application of it. Just like a bad CEO, eventually he cops it for his peoples poor performance. Finally the authority had the history of the trees, that contractor may only know the last year or so, so if there were previous problems how were they conveyed to the existing contractor?

Per head of Capita, Australia is now more litigious than America, but I'm not going to become a lawyers sher-pa to cover my ass in the event of me being responsible for every tree I walk past.

 

[Local # 17 T.T.]

Oral contracts are legally binding-just hard to prove. A simple document stating the work to be done and the price to be paid along with the terms of payment (Upon completion, 30 days, $1 per month for 37 years -whatever.) is binding. Legalese really does NOT help. Why are you working for someone you cannot trust?

I don't know these people well enough to trust them. They called for an estimate and agreed to my price for removing the tree. I normally receive payment right after the job or shortly there after, but I am willing to make an exception because they are an older couple and they'll be paying me out of their SSI/ Income Tax check , which has not arrived yet. I am 98% sure they won't burn me, but I would like to have some kinda basic contract. Thanks for you help again!

Mike Davis

 

[Stumper]

Something simple should suffice and will hopefully make everyone feel comfortable. FWIW, I find that going through life trusting everyone until I am given cause to stop is much more pleasant. Like Ekka, I typically do evrything verbally. I do give written bids. The client gets the original and I retain a copy. That help keep everything clear in all of our minds. :angel:

 

[Koa Man]

Put everything in writing. Do not trust your or their memory. This is for everyone's protection, both yours and theirs. It is too easy for a customer to say, "You said you would do this or that. You said the price was $____." On many of my jobs where I am doing 10 or more different trees, I need the job specs in writing or I would forget what I am supposed to do. The only time I just go with a verbal quote is something real small or real simple, like 'I'll trim these 10 coconut trees and haul away the debris for $500."

 

[dhuffnmu]

Hey, Local #17 T. T,,

You are not to far from me. Do you own the company or just working for them?

 

[Local # 17 T.T.]

Hey, Local #17 T. T,,

You are not to far from me. Do you own the company or just working for them?

I'm a Line Clearence tree trimmer for the Energy Group, but I am a union member for #17.
I also do side jobs in my spare time cause the moneys awsome!! What about you?

 

[vharrison2]

Put everything in writing. Do not trust your or their memory. This is for everyone's protection, both yours and theirs. It is too easy for a customer to say, "You said you would do this or that. You said the price was $____." On many of my jobs where I am doing 10 or more different trees, I need the job specs in writing or I would forget what I am supposed to do. The only time I just go with a verbal quote is something real small or real simple, like 'I'll trim these 10 coconut trees and haul away the debris for $500."

KoaMan 50$ a tree seems a little low.However, we have guys doing them for less here. For a tree that is NOT loaded, (you know, they get there palms trimmed every other year) $50.00 is fair. What do you do with the mulch? Is it expensive to dump there? We try to give our mulch away,but palm sometimes is tough to get rid of because it is harder to spread. We try to tell people it has a lot of nutrients in it and is worth the extra effort.

 

[Koa Man]

In Hawaii, the standard for coconut trees is being trimmed every 6 months, every 4 months for hotels and other commercial properties or higher end homes. A palm with 9 months of growth is considered loaded here and price runs about $65.00. A tree done every other year would run $125-150. Most guys are doing coconuts for around $35-40 a tree trimmed every 5-6 months. I use a Gravely 395 as my "dedicated" palm chipper. I posted some pictures in this thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=20001
I get no problem giving the chips from that machine away. The green waste facility here charges $42 a ton. Chips are $10 a ton, except for palm chips, which pay the full price. I can dump all the chipped material I have for free at several sites, 2 of which are "bottomless pits."

BTW, most guys here can trim a maintained coco in 5 min. or less.

 

[vharrison2]

Interesting, prices right on target. That chipper looks like it works fantastic on the palms. You got to love the bottomless pits! I will check our price per ton when I get in the office on Monday. I plan to look into that chipper Monday as well. Isn't this site coooollllll?

 

[dhuffnmu]

Hey Local #17 T.T.,,

Are you just a trimmer or do you do takedowns as well? Me and my dad own a business and we are always looking for climbers to come and take a tree down here and there on the weekends. Would you be interested in some side work? If you are the pay is really good. We are not to far apart from eachother. So like I said if you are interested I can get you all kinds of work on weekends or weekdays and as I said pay is really good. You don't even have to do any clean up just show up put the tree on the ground and you can leave if you want, all up to.

 

[vharrison2]

In Hawaii, the standard for coconut trees is being trimmed every 6 months, every 4 months for hotels and other commercial properties or higher end homes. A palm with 9 months of growth is considered loaded here and price runs about $65.00. A tree done every other year would run $125-150. Most guys are doing coconuts for around $35-40 a tree trimmed every 5-6 months. I use a Gravely 395 as my "dedicated" palm chipper. I posted some pictures in this thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=20001
I get no problem giving the chips from that machine away. The green waste facility here charges $42 a ton. Chips are $10 a ton, except for palm chips, which pay the full price. I can dump all the chipped material I have for free at several sites, 2 of which are "bottomless pits."

BTW, most guys here can trim a maintained coco in 5 min. or less.

Koa Man our dump is 92$ ton i bet it is the highest in the usa

 

[treeguy6363]

"I don't know these people well enough to trust them. They called for an estimate and agreed to my price for removing the tree. I normally receive payment right after the job or shortly there after, but I am willing to make an exception because they are an older couple and they'll be paying me out of their SSI/ Income Tax check , which has not arrived yet. I am 98% sure they won't burn me, but I would like to have some kinda basic contract. Thanks for you help again!"

90% of the customers i do work for I don't know eithier, the others being repeat customers. But i don't need any contracts to get paid. It's a simple matter of choosing who i work for. Simply put i only do residental work. In the rare case ( maybe once every 3 yrs ) that i do not get paid I trot on down to the local corthouse and put a lein on the house. The lein and the filing fee with interest is compounded daily, and they cannot get a loan or sell the property until i am paid interest and all. From what i hear the bank and credit card compaines raise alot of hell about it too. Of course i do warn them first before i do this with a written letter taped to the door or given to them. Out of the 4 people that i threatened with it all 4 paid before i filed the lein at the courthouse. Works for me.

 

[Koa Man]

In Hawaii, a lic. contractor is not allowed to put a lien on a property for unpaid tree work because it is not considered a site improvement. A building contractor could. I found that out when I was going to do it to the neighbor of one of my customers who didn't pay me $80 to cut a few branches for him when we were working next door. I had sent him an invoice and three reminder letters. After three months, I figured I'll just screw him by putting a lien on the property and forget the $80, surprise...I couldn't do it. I then went to his house and taped a note on his door that said if I did not get paid, I will deposit the equivalent about of brush we had removed from his property, plus 3 months interest in his driveway. I got a check 2 days later with a note that said, "I suggest you don't go threatening your customers." I called him up and told him, "You are not my customer. You are an a--hole who thought he could stiff someone who did manual labor for a living." I had a couple of others like that, where I actually had to pay a personal visit to collect. Fortunately, I have not had those kinds of people in the last 15 years.

 

[vharrison2]

LMAO "you are not my customer..." Thank goodness 99.999 appreciate the work we do.

 

[a_lopa]

the only times ive had any trouble is with wealthy people,i once had a lady ask me to itemise my bill by the hour after id qouted and done the job,she came from the richest part of town and wanted the invoice made out to her rental property,sorry cant do that heres your bill,i dont set out to keep permanent customers,they need to be screened first