board feet confusion/price

[roundhead]

I have been trying to figure out the basic formula. a friend wants to buy some rough cut lumber. I have some to mill. I have looked on the web for a simple calculator but am getting too many different numbers. he wants 4/4 which is supposed to be 1 inch or just over. 5.25 width and 8' long. so if I round the width down to 5 and multiply by 1 I get 5 (very simple so far). then multiply by 8 (the length) to get 40 (still simple). then I divide by 12 since I am using feet and get 3.3 infinity. so 1 board of this size will get me about 3 Board Feet. Is this the correct calculation?
he wants a price (ball park) and I have read on here enough to know that it is basically an art. "charge what you can get." I dont want to say something ridiculous, so for rough cut hickory that is straight with no knots, etc. would $2 a BF be fair in SW Ohio? just wanted some opinions before I ran it by him. thanks

 

[Big Beech]

My math is crap butt measure it all in inches. Width x lenght x depth ÷ by 1728.
As for pricing. Yes a black art:smile2:

 

[cityslicker]

I always calculate width in inches x thickness in inches x length in inches divided by 144. Make sure you price it fair for you too. I would also maybe round down to 3.25 board feet not 3.0. Maybe find out what other places in your area are selling hickory for and go lower by 25-50%? Total black art voodoo guess!

 

[roundhead]

I always calculate width in inches x thickness in inches x length in inches divided by 144. Make sure you price it fair for you too. I would also maybe round down to 3.25 board feet not 3.0. Maybe find out what other places in your area are selling hickory for and go lower by 25-50%? Total black art voodoo guess!

thanks...So it looks like this board he wants is about 3 BF. I am not very comfortable with black art voodoo and would rather avoid magic altogether. I think I will just give him the wood

 

[Cody Colston]

I would calculate it based on a 6" wide board which is an even 4 bf for an 8' board. Anything less than 1" thick is also calculated at 4/4 or 1 inch.

I think $2 per bf is too low. The cheapest source around here (rough sawn) charges $3.65 for Pecan/Hickory, FAS & Select grade.

BTW, Hickory is a female dog to saw.

 

[Mike Van]

I agree with Cody, thats a 1x6, 8' long, it's 4 bf. Roughsawn and green though, that board would dry rot here before you'd get 3.65/bf for it. 2.00 would be a lot closer, but different places get different money. Hickory is pretty hard, second to locust here, tough on blades [or chains] I cut about a thousand ft for a guy a few years ago, there's a resin in the bark that will coat the teeth on a bandmill after a few boards, I had to make up a lube/water drip to stop it. Nice wood, but heavy & hard. Powder post beetles will move into it fast too.

 

[Timberwerks]

Are you guys selling green or dry?

 

[Mike Van]

I have some dry, some 20+ years - You get stated at this, you think every log has gold in it. Doesn't take long though, you start to tell who your buyers are, and what they want. I do almost all saw to order now, rough and green. Their logs or mine. If you try to inventory lumber, you need a lot of space, because if you make 2x8's, they'll want 2x10's. 4/4, they'll ask for 6/4.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Sort of reminds me when I got started, and just assumed all MY logs were clear lumber. How much wood are you going to have to cut to get the required number of clear 8' boards, and what will you do with the rest of the lumber? Is your friend assuming that if you mill 4/4 boards that he will have kiln dry, surfaced 4/4 lumber to work with? I generally start out by asking a customer what he wants, and work backwards from there to figure out what to mill. 3.33 board feet @ $2.00 per bd ft would be $6.67/ board. $6.50 per board wouldn't be out of line, especially if you just have some nice hickory logs laying around that need to be milled. If he is a true woodworker, once he sees clear, straight-grain hickory, he'll forget all about $/bd ft, start drooling, pull out the checkbook, and tell you to fill in the amount for whatever you want.

Here's a thought that has come up on other threads... How good a friend? How much lumber? Does he have something to barter? If you just charged a 6-pack (then split it with him after the log was milled), would he return the favor?

 

[BlueRider]

There are 144 cubic inches in a board foot so the formula is width in inches x length in inches x thickness in inches divided by 144. It is traditional to round to the nearest tenth of a bf and for rough sawn lumber use the actual measurements and for finished use the dimensions of the rough sawn board that was planed and jointed/straight line ripped.

 

[MGoodwin]

board feet calcs

Just to be clear, there are 1728 inches per 1 cubic foot = 12" x 12" x 12" = 1728". But it sounds like "board feet" is actaully your cubic volume in inches divided by 144 (12in x 12in). your calculation of 3 board feet for a board that size sounds right.... not sure sure what the right answer is but I garuntee the math of cubic inches to cubic feet it correct.

 

[lumberjackchef]

Here is a link to an interesting conversation about how to correctly figure board feet. May be useful to you.....
Calculating board feet

 

[Dave Boyt]

Good thread. You'd better be pretty sure of yourself before arguing with Gene W! :msp_biggrin: I don't think anyone is out to cheat anybody and, in theory, after measuring enough random width boards, it should all average out whether you use actual width measurements or round. By his description of the NHLA (National Hardwood Lumber Association), your original post is correct. On the other hand, if he just wants a quote per board, the number of board feet is is more for reference than an absolute.

 

[BlueRider]

Just to be clear, there are 1728 inches per 1 cubic foot = 12" x 12" x 12" = 1728". But it sounds like "board feet" is actaully your cubic volume in inches divided by 144 (12in x 12in). your calculation of 3 board feet for a board that size sounds right.... not sure sure what the right answer is but I garuntee the math of cubic inches to cubic feet it correct.

You are correct about number of cubic inches in a cubic foot, however a board foot is one square foot, one inch thick. l The easiest way to calculate bf is to multiply all dimensions in inches and decide by 144.

 

[lps8]

lumber cutting charge

Good discussion.

One thing to think about is that the time to cut a 1x6 is the same as a 2x6, which has double the sq ft. So $2 bf would get you $8 for a 1x6 and $16 for a 2x6, which might be too high on the 2x6, depend on quality, type of wood, etc.

I would think about wood price and labor separately. If someone wanted 1x4, you would not make much for your time if you charged the same bf price as for a 2x6. Your box store prices reflect that to a amount, but their saw mill is a whole lot more efficient, lots more.

One way that has been recommended on this site was to charge so much for the wood and so much for each piece cut based on the time required, which would be a fair way for both mill operator and customer.

Larry

 

[Mike Van]

Larry has some good points about prices - However if you are buying logs, you'll pay by the bf, the logger cares not what you'll make of them. Say you paid .80/bf for a log, cut it into 4/4 boards and sold it, then figure the same log sold at 8/4 'discount' price, you've lost much of your potential profit. Some mills actually charge extra for 8/4 and up, as the labor on large dimensions goes up. Would you rather handle 1x12x12' oak all day or 2x12x12's ? I did 100 oak 6x6's for a customer this spring, 8's and 12's - After all that lugging, pushing, etc on those, there's no way i'm discounting the price of them. On a bandmill, you make a slab cut, then drop the head 6" and make another cut, turn the log and do it again. You need to shove these 6" thick cuts out of the way, then reload them to edge them all. No discounts on that.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Big lumber mills have automated log and board handling, and the difference between a 1x6 and a 2x6 is just a few seconds, if that. You can't duplicate their methods or price structures on a small band saw mill. I just figure that the extra effort to handle the larger pieces is roughly equal to the savings in cutting time, and charge by the board foot, which goes up if the order requires unusually large logs. Keep it simple, and figure you'll make a little more profit from some customers and a little less from others, but it will average out.

 

[gemniii]

thanks...So it looks like this board he wants is about 3 BF. I am not very comfortable with black art voodoo and would rather avoid magic altogether. I think I will just give him the wood

If all he wants is 3 BF it makes most of this thread useless

Calculators here Timber and Lumber Calculators at WOODWEB

 

[lps8]

charge by cut

If all he wants is 3 BF it makes most of this thread useless

Calculators here Timber and Lumber Calculators at WOODWEB

Hence, charge by the cut, and as someone mentioned about handling large boards, taking into consideration board size, type of wood, time, etc.