Boy Scouts and tree climbing?

[DadF]

Hey all! It's been awhile since I've visited the site. Have had some changes in job status over the last couple of years and now hardly ever get up in a tree (other than to deer hunt:rolleyes2: ) I do still maintain my ISA certification though. The one thing that has remained constant over the last 30+ years has been my involvement in Boy Scouts, the last ten mostly with the Venturing program. The members in my Venturing Crew have learned how to climb trees even though it has not been a "recognized" BSA activity-it's a lot easier to "show the ropes" to new climbers when there are plenty of trees around in the middle of Indiana before they start climbing on rock or going down in caves! I am also a National Certified Climbing Director for the Boy Scouts and have asked more than a few times during their training activities on the National level why there was never anything done with tree climbing and was always told it was because of the "Leave No Trace" policy that BSA has adapted...which I was always quick to point out that that policy could EASILY be adhered to while climbing trees :bang:


All that leads up to this:

Well it sounds like somebody at the National level has finally listened to some one in the tree climbing industry since there will be a Tree Climbing venue at the National Jamboree in 2013!! I understand it will have tree climbing, tree canopy tours, ziplines and a "big swing"!

I have already been accepted help staff at the Jamboree and would encourage anyone here that has connections to Scouting, or even they don't and think they may be interested, to visit the Jamboree website at https://summit.scouting.org/ , take a look around. If you want to help and can't figure how to navigate the website let me know and I'll try to help you through it (even though that's kind of like the blind leading the blind:yoyo. Yes- even helping to staff the event is going to cost you some bucks but the thrill of teaching young men and women how to do what many of you do everyday is definitely worth it!

Also this Jamboree is at an all new location in West Virginia-the Bechtel Scout Reservation! For anyone that has been involved in Scouting this new camp is quickly becoming referred to as "Philmont East". It's basically at the junction of the New and Gauley Rivers and will have everything available for Scouters that they could ever want for outdoor activities including some very good rock climbing venues and I'm sure the tree climbing will also be added at some point after the Jamboree.

TIA for looking into it!!!

If anyone has any questions let me know or post 'em here. I'm still getting information on what exactly is needed but I do know that they are looking for staff even if they have no Scouting background.

 

[treeseer]

Sounds great, but I saw no dates.

 

[DadF]

Sorry Treeseer-guess I did forget to put any exact dates down. Right now my staffing dates run from July 11 to 25, 2013. That puts me there before the actual Jamboree starts so that on site training can be done. You can also elect to do half sessions but I've heard those people will be used for equipment issuing, etc and not for staffing of the actual venue.

Take a look at the website I gave-that should give you a few details, it gives the venue particulars but not a lot about the staffing without going into the staffing link it gives. I've got a little inside information since my BIL will be one of the people managing about half of the Climbing venues

 

[sgreanbeans]

Are they going to get a Tree Badge!

 

[Peter Jenkins]

TCI has a long history with the BSA. It's good they are reconsidering their policy.

Tree Climbers International worked with the BSA for many years until they changed their policy with recreational tree climbing many years ago.
Right now it is specifically on their "unapproved" activities: technical tree climbing. We ran a number of events and even had an Explorer Post- #873. We did their World Expo event in Atlanta for 5 years running until the policy change.

The change was centered around 2 issues.
1. Leave no trace. Which TCI supports.
2. They asked TCI to give us a specific numerical number on how much weight a branch could hold. We told them it depends on location of anchor point, species of tree, and size of branch. They came back that they wanted a specific number. We wrote back that it was impossible. Then we asked how they quantified their anchor points for caving and top roping. No response. All communication ceased.

So it's good that it is opening up. At the TCI school in Atlanta, we do LOTS of Girl Scout troops. We also have a patch for them; they are big into patches.

Let's hope the BSA will go about tree climbing in a focused way. You just can't pick a tree and go for it. The tree needs a detailed inspection (with Resistograph test) and measures to protect the tree against soil compaction from heavy foot traffic.

Please send me a contact name, if you have one.

BTW- TCI will be hosting a big tree climbing "Gathering" in 2013, October 7-13. It will be recreational tree climbing's 30th year anniversary. Check it out.

Peter "Treeman" Jenkins
Founder
Tree Climbers International Inc.

 

[DadF]

Thanks for the background Peter!! Some of this information you gave I had heard about in some shape or form however I didn't know that TCI had been one of the contacts. Hopefully with all of the interest in tree canopy tours and ziplines, along with BSA adopting ACCT standards, we will see resurgence of the recreational tree climbing. I still believe that though the "every day working" professional tree care people need to be looking into this-what better way to bring a whole cadre of young people into the tree care industry than to have them exposed this while they are still in their young teens!

Sent you a PM!

 

[murphy4trees]

Using a rsistograph to inspect a tree for rec climbing is ridiculous IMO.. Anyone that has enough knowledge to run a resistograph should be able to do a visual inspection of the tree.. If there is any question about the tree, PICK ANOTHER TREE!!!!

 

[sgreanbeans]

I dis-agree Murph. If they have it, use it, Could be a opportunity to teach the young ones something. I read last year, not sure who he was, someone on here will know, A top tree guy, as in on the board for ISA or TCIA, anyways, a big shot, pro, champion climber went on a rec climb in Cali with some other top notch people. They were going to write a article about something. They inspected their trees, and went up, his failed at the bottom and he had no chance. He died instantly. My point, if they are going have kids out there, and have a resisto on hand, then use it, cause even the best cant see everything.
Props to you fellas for teaching the kids, mold those little brains in to our way of thinking...................bad idea, nevermind.

 

[Peter Jenkins]

How do I find out more about rec fatality climb falatlity?

Where can I find out about the fatality? I would like details. I would like to do a writeup on my blog on the fatality but I need the facts. This will be the first fatality recorded on a recreational tree climb. On TCI's side, with many schools world wide, we have been accident free- for almost 30 years. That it happened to a pro champion climber is very regrettable. I really want to know the details. Was it a euc tree? They are very sketchy and have a reputation for failing.


Peter "Treeman" Jenkins
Blog: treemanspeaks.com

 

[Peter Jenkins]

We Resistograph all "designated climbing trees".

Using a Resistograph to inspect a tree for rec climbing is ridiculous IMO.. Anyone that has enough knowledge to run a resistograph should be able to do a visual inspection of the tree.. If there is any question about the tree, PICK ANOTHER TREE!!!!

A designated climbing tree is a tree that is climbed hundreds of times per year. Ours is in a county park. I may drill a designated climbing tree only once or many times if I am making a decision to use the tree often AND it has bad signs, like fungus, cavities etc. so it can be quantified. I am talking about selecting a NEW designated climbing tree. I know drilling is slightly invasive with the bit being less than 1/8 of an inch diameter.

When I go out in the wilds with the Atlanta Tree Climbing Club for a first ascent, I probably won't carry my F-500 unit to drill the tree. It's very heavy and lugging a motorcycle battery is SUPER cumbersome. I'll inspect the heck out of it and maybe do a first ascent to be sure before I bring out the club. Yes- I'll choose another tree if I have any doubts and come back and drill it if I think the climb is worthy and particularly spectacular.

Back to designated climbing trees where large groups climb on a regular basis. If I was not to do perform due diligence and there was a failure, you can bet that my career as a tree climbing instructor is over. So I don't take chances. Would you?

Thanks for your comment. It's always good to get two sides to the coin.

Peter "Treeman" Jenkins
Blog: treemanspeaks.com

 

[sgreanbeans]

Where can I find out about the fatality? I would like details. I would like to do a writeup on my blog on the fatality but I need the facts. This will be the first fatality recorded on a recreational tree climb. On TCI's side, with many schools world wide, we have been accident free- for almost 30 years. That it happened to a pro champion climber is very regrettable. I really want to know the details. Was it a euc tree? They are very sketchy and have a reputation for failing.


Peter "Treeman" Jenkins
Blog: treemanspeaks.com

Sorry, but I have no idea. I read it somewhere. I think it might have been a article about tree inspections, I cant remember, I 'll try and google it.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Ellensburg man dies in tree-climbing fall | The Columbian

http://nj.gov/health/surv/documents/96nj074.pdf

I couldn't find it, which I am surprised. These are the facts that I remember. He was with several people, all Arborist. They were at some national park. Tree uprooted while he was in it. The others watched it happen, were getting ready to go up themselves. 1 woman Arborist was there.

Its bugging me, as I would think it would have been easy to find. Found those, didnt know if those would help your blog.

 

[DadF]

sgbeans-now that you say something I seem to remember reading about that too....I'm thinking there were even some pics of the tree that failed. I'll do some digging too and see if I can find anything.

In the meantime here's a video about some of the Bechtel Summit zipline construction-any of the equipment look familiar??

First Zip Line Tested At The Summit [Construction Update] - YouTube

 

[sgreanbeans]

sgbeans-now that you say something I seem to remember reading about that too....I'm thinking there were even some pics of the tree that failed. I'll do some digging too and see if I can find anything.

In the meantime here's a video about some of the Bechtel Summit zipline construction-any of the equipment look familiar??

First Zip Line Tested At The Summit [Construction Update] - YouTube

Yep , pics of where it failed and the one still had his rope in the pic, still tied in. It was a bummer of a story. But a wake up, they checked the trees, before they went up.

 

[DadF]

Here's an update with a message that I've put on some other sites that I'm also a member of:

Don't know how many of you all are familiar with the Boy Scouts National Jamboree however for the first time the National Jamboree, that is held every 4 years, will NOT be at Fort AP Hill in VA.

Thanks to the Bechtel Family and their generous donation of multiple 1000's of acres of land the Boy Scouts now have a totally new area for their National Jamborees in West Virgina right outside of Beckley. I have been to this area many times with our Scout groups for world class white water rafting on the Gauley River and for some very exciting rock climbing/rappelling. Now the Scouts will have their own National Scout Reservation in that very same area!

One of the many exciting venues for the "new" 2013 Jamboree will be a climbing/rappelling area and a tree canopy/zipline area. I am a certified BSA National Climbing Director along with being an ISA Certified Arborist so guess where I'll want to be working? Posted Image

Just had an email that was updating staff on how the training schedules and climbing venues were shaping up. One of the first points brought out is that so far there are only 71 people that have signed up to staff these areas but the anticipated staff needs are closer to 700! YES that's 700!!!

Obviously there is a need for many more staff to handle the tens of thousands of Scouts that will be attending this event. If you have thought about helping the Boy Scouts out now would be the time to do it! Maybe hanging around in a climbing harness isn't your thing?? There will shooting sports/archery, whitewater rafting,....there will also have to be food fixed and fire prevention personnel just to name a few other areas...all of those things that you would find in a typical small city.

Can't offer your body? I'm sure that "campership" donations would also be appreciated to any of your Scout Councils/Districts. Attending the National Jamboree is not cheap, heck even the Staff will have to pay to go, HOWEVER-this will probably be one of highlights of any young person's life (yes both boys and girls are in Boy Scouts!!) so if you are at all able to assist in any way I'm sure there will be a very appreciative Scout somewhere in your area!

If you have any questions PM me or just get in touch your local Troop, Venturing Crew or Boy Scout office and I'm sure that answers will be supplied.

Here's a link that may also answer a lot of questions:

www.bsajamboree.org/

TIA!!!