Breaking a Climbing Line?

[okietreedude1]

I am in the process of acquiring an insurance policy for an upcoming trade show and an agent made a comment of concern over a personal climbing line breaking and the climber getting injured (or worse).

I know these ropes to be rated rather high and only selling ropes rated at 7k+, I would like to think they would never break under regular use.

Does anyone here have any expierience/knowledge of a climber's rope breaking while in use that did not get cut first?

Im talking about standard climbing and the WHAM!, break goes the rope!

Thanks for the input.

 

[Lumberjack]

ANSI says that the ropes must be rated to 5400 pounds, and must be retired when found defective, or after 2 years (I think).

A climbers rope will never break, assuming that it isn't cut, abraded, really old with internal grit, glazed from heat, ect.

I climb on Blue Streak (8100 lbs.) My TIP normally would break before I broke the rope.

In previous posts, they stated that the human body can only take something like 2200 pounds of force (not sure how that is measured) before death, so our ropes are 2x's that, or the same as Arbor Plex.

A properly instpected and maintained rope, from a rebutable manufactor, will never break from a climber's normal use.

Carl

 

[NeTree]

I myself climb almost exclusively on Safety Blue Hi-V.

In all my years in this business, I have never seen nor heard of a climbers' line breaking spontaneously. I've heard twice about people cutting their line while sawing, but again, never just... WHAM!

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by netree
In all my years in this business, I have never seen nor heard of a climbers' line breaking spontaneously. I've heard twice about people cutting their line while sawing, but again, never just... WHAM!

TITS fixes that!

Carl

 

[NeTree]

tits fix alot of things, Carl, but that's off-topic...




Seriously, in both cases the climber WAS tied in twice, and didn't take a plunge. I was just referring to the climbing line failing due to operator stupidity as opposed to some inexplicable sudden breakage.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Ya might point out to the insurance man that most of us climb on a 7000# test line.............doubled over, with only about half of our weight on each leg of the line!

That is before, throwing a lanyard around something, and having that 7k line also supporting us likewise in a basket position (in sling/strength terms).

At some point, 4 - 7000# legs of line should sound strong enough to hold 1 person(even me)!

Well, i guess really just 1 - 7000# connection would be really enough 'overkill' (okay, just kidding, don't use that word!); but anyway, the idea of having something 25x stronger than it needs to be, then doubling it over is so that there is no question (with quality manufacture).

A lot of things are approved for all different uses, that are only 4-10x stronger than need be in many areas around us.

Some of us keep a climbing line for 2 years or so, some climb on one for a year, then rig 400# loads of the same line for another 2 years etc.


i'd think/hope that if a line ever, ever failed as you propose; that we'd all know about it! NOone here, would keep such a secret! i'd imagine we all here have seeen others climb on worn out, snagged lines that i'd use for dragging; that looked so bad wouldn't tie a dog up with; that we don't duplicate climbing on those lines ourselves. But, can feel a lot more confidence in a properly maintained line after seeing someone climb on a tattered piece of crap line!

It just don't happen that way (rope break)O-Dude; the design etc. is made to make such a scenario kinda ridiculous. The insurance man is an actuarial science man; the tables for rope breaking as you suggest would be nil; the same tables will find much higher risks in more commoner elements of the day (tripping, driving etc.); than in this one specialty of the line breaking IMLHO.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

There are much greater risks of exposure than a rope breaking. We don't need to give the insurance industry any reasons to get worried about risks so I won't go into any.

Is the agent considering not giving you insurance becaues of this fear?

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I assume this is product liability insurance?

Show them the ANSI standard , that your product complies with ANSI Z133 in that it is approved for this specific use by the OEM.

Use the MBS figure for the product and ask the agent how a 200 # person could apply enough force to break the rope while working withing accepted standards of practice.

Lastly one couls say that if there were a remote chance of rope breaking, OSHA would not allow its use. Which is why we have the ANSI standards, compitant professionals made the guidelines, not well meaning, but ignorant borocraps.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

borocraps.....

See; if that spelling don't break a rope, none of us can!

Are personal waivers for climbers typically signed at such events?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If it is a workshop they usually have you sign something saying that you are a proffessional with minimum skills and understand the risks inherent to the tasks involved.

 

[topnotchtree]

The only reason I could see being concerned with about a climbing line is if were defective somehow from the time it was new. I have had climbing lines that were recalled because the center core of the line would seperate from the outer part of the rope. But I cannot see how that would let the rope break anyhow.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Allrighty then.



I just have a more macarbe sense of humor than most.

 

[TREETX]

hey MB - FYI

however true that may be, that pic was already posted and several found it offensive.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Lucky and golden are we that can climb and fly so freely,
i am so aware of that, that i can't climb at full throttle in front of a man in a wheel chair; so as to not feel like i am showing off so much dancing in the air, when he would give anything just to walk, or even crawl across the ground for but a few days.

Just a stray thought!






Ummmmmm wee now take you back to usual, unimportant drivel, continued; already in progress....



i was feelin'good one day, cruising about 60MPH, new stereo, brakes and tires.......... All of the sudden a tire/wheel passes me, almost hitting me. I thought what idiot din't put their tire on right.

All of the sudden, Houston had a problem...... my lil car was sank on one corner, digging into the road! That dang tire musta rolled 1/2 mile, seemed longer walking back; never had a spare rim. Couple of the other Lug nuts where loose too! Had to share'em around (now 3 per), to get off the interstate, and buy more!

Of course, the shop was sure they put them on right 2weeks ago.....

Ya never know!

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
... You need a different insurance agent that isn't so stupid.

I'm not so sure the agent is stupid....just ignorant. S/he doesn't know any better. The average tree worker is as ignorant about insurance work as the average insurance agent is about treework.

Rather than find a different agent, it may be worth your while to explain what's going on. It is natural for a person to be skeptical about something they are uneducated about.

Brian, you hit it right on the head when you said, "It is a question that would only be asked by someone totally unfamiliar with our industry. " The agent can't be at fault for not learning.

love
nick

 

[MasterBlaster]

If I even THOUGHT my climbing line could break, just outta the blue, I would probably quit climbing altogether.

I trust my rope completely. Every time I touch it, or hank it up, I'm inspecting it. Every time(almost! ) I put my gaff in the tree, I'm a'looking to not stab it.

Our ropes are our MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT that we deal with. Everything else is secondary.

Stupid insurance person!

 

[Dobber]

could you immagine if the insurance people applied the same logic to seat belts.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Insurance people? Logic?

 

[okietreedude1]

Thanks guys for all your input. I agree with it ALL! This particular convention (MW ISA Annual Conf) to my knowledge does not have any waiver they pass around.

I explained to the Ins. lady everyone attending knows what they are doing (as they are Profs) or they would not be at the conf. to begin with.

This all took place last week and I have yet to hear back from them. Since, I have been looking elsewhere. They dont want my business, I dont want thiers. (is that a bad attitude? I hope not)

As for ropes breaking, Ive had arborplex in the past that spent 3 yrs in climbing service and is still today (6yrs later) being used as a lowering line, pull line, and just two days ago, as a tow rope! Still in one piece. If that aint strong enough, I dont know what would be.

Thanks again!

 

[treeman48507]

15 years ago when I first strarted we was using 3 strand hemp.Very outdated by todays standards.What a trip it was to believe in! espcially old ones. The ins. agent must be a real desk sitter,pitiful but desksitters make great customers!