Bucket tie-ins

[Sunrise Guy]

After many years of never using a bucket on the job, I have found that I am now turning down gigs that I could use a bucket on with no problem. As I have done some research on bucket safety, it appears that I have to add suspenders to my harness for fall arrest and a tie-in strap onto the arm of the bucket. I then clip into the D ring on that strap. OK, no biggie. The problem I have is that it looks like a deceleration strap clips into the D ring and then to the back of the suspenders, according to the set-ups I've seen, thus far. If I fall, I am suspended from behind with no way to lower myself down. Obviously if my groundie can operate the bucket, assuming it's still functional, I get lowered down. If the bucket is out of commision, it looks like I swing in the breeze and wave to the gathering crowd until ----???

To my way of seeing it, I would feel much better about taking my rope bucket up with me and then clipping into my harness the way I normally do, using the D rings in front. I would run my rope through a carabiner hooked into the D ring of the strap that's around the bucket arm. If I fall out of the bucket, I lower myself down and that's that.

So tell me, you regular bucket guys, what is the reality of the situation here? Do you actually tie-in with that deceleration strap clipped behind you, or not? Have you ever fallen out of the bucket with that strap clipped behind you?

Thanks, in advance, for the info.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The requirement for dorsal attatchment is that the trauma from bucket ejection (pad slip causing catapult action) is much less then with a lumbar attatchemnt. E.g. more people have become parapaligics from lumbar attatchment then dorsal.

Also suspention trauma is lessesned with hanging vertical.

I went to a dedicated suspender belt with my latest saddle, custom made by Buckingham for $400. It fits like a glove.

 

[ropensaddle]

Clipping in front would leave you with a back problem
in the event you were thrown. I used the old belt with
one dee for years and they changed to the dann thing.
The old system was easy to get on and more maneuverable
much simpler. What gets me is the deceleration can slam you
into the ground, tree or any other object! I understand shock
load but if you are slammed into the ground whats so all fired
safe about that?

 

[Justice]

I used to use the belt but now I use a Petzl V2 Bod. Its actually just as easy to use once you get into it. With the attachment on the back your tie in stays out of your way as well.

As far as the harness vs the belt.. there is a TV show that comes out here and there (can't t remember the name) but it shows what happens when you fall 10ft from a bucket and are stopped dead with a belt system. You will only watch it once to decide which is the better system.

 

[beelsr]

For a bucket, you want "fall protection", which is the clip in the back and a "soft" strap.

If you fall, you'll be hanging but your back won't be broken.

Look at the guys in home depot or on any construction site for how it should look. Instead of modding your climbing gear, get new kit - unless you're the kind of guy who likes climbing out of the bucket (not me). If you don't do much work, get the double-rectangular clip model for $50, quick clips/discos are maybe $100. Soft strap is maybe $50 as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Buy as nice a set of PPE as you think your life is worth. Or... it's still cheaper than your health insurance's deductible for one ER visit.

And no, I haven't had to field-test mine (yet?) and hope I never do but this is way better than tying a rope around yourself and anchoring off the bumper.

 

[Industry]

we use a belt with the D-ring in the back, and a 2.5 foot lanyard, so if you fall out of the bucket you aren't going very far.

 

[clearance]

we use a belt with the D-ring in the back, and a 2.5 foot lanyard, so if you fall out of the bucket you aren't going very far.

The truth, thats the deal, it aint no big deal. Do it Sunrise, its a cheap setup.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

we use a belt with the D-ring in the back, and a 2.5 foot lanyard, so if you fall out of the bucket you aren't going very far.

As long as you are absolutly stable, you are ok. There was a guy around here a few years ago who had an outrigger failure who was ejected from the bucketlike a catapult. He had no bucket, but the forces on his body would have been very different with a 2.5 ft lanyard vs a long decel lanyard. The way I read it he would have lived if he had tie-in.

 

[ropensaddle]

As long as you are absolutly stable, you are ok. There was a guy around here a few years ago who had an outrigger failure who was ejected from the bucketlike a catapult. He had no bucket, but the forces on his body would have been very different with a 2.5 ft lanyard vs a long decel lanyard. The way I read it he would have lived if he had tie-in.

How could they determine that he would have lived with breakaway
strap as when he got to the end it could have thrown him right back
to the bucket at forces that could easily kill him. I am not knocking
the system, just the mandatory being associated with it ;while it may
better in the event of leveling cable failure boom failure or slipping off
blocks would have same result no matter what you are wearing. The
short lanyard could prevent you from becoming impaled on tree below
or slammed in the ground I am just saying both forms should be allowed
as they both have problems and user should be able to decide.


Also I would rather be a little off level as to stack up
blocks as less chance of the problem occurring also
most buckets will not roll on level ground without the
stiff legs deployed so there must have been more to
this story than you have said. There is no better way
to ensure safe bucket operations than proper maintenance.
I check my attachments and load lines often if you have
failure at these points you are dead no matter what.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Hey all..

I've seen countless training videos and been through numerous classes on the subject so thought I'd chime up. I see the point that you are making with not being able to return to the bucket...that is an issue. The fact is you won't be hanging there waving at the traffic. Reports show that hanging in that position for as long as 45 minutes can be FATAL due to cardiac complications. This is sort of a tough dillema. Fall arrest harnesses with dorsal attachment using a decel. lanyard has the advantage of not severing you spinal cord but are only really any good if your fall is FARTHER than 15 feet. And ideally the fall is unobstructed. This is perfect for aerial work platforms such as Genie lifts and JLG's. The second option is the old belt and buckstrap. Yes you can be thrown and back/spinal damage is likely. But you might be able to return to the bucket. The solution there is the 2' lanyard. The thinking being that you can't be thrown from the bucket because your legs can't clear the lip of the basket. Your idea with the rope has merit....but I'm not sure I'd use it. (wad of rope full of chips and dust that's probably going to get tangled if you ever do need it...not to mention it's always in your way...) Another option we didn't catch is the dorsal attachment with retractable travel limiting device. Picture a lanyard that works like a seatbelt. Sudden movement locks the brake and arrests movement. (hopefully before you clear the bucket)

I use the short strap in the bucket. It makes the most sense to me. If you do choose to go that route I have a few. I'd sell you one cheap if you wanted try it out. I also have some 4 footers if you want that. If you go with full harness and decel. I have some of those. I also have retractables. Not everything is new, but all of it safe for service. If anyone else is interested let me know, I've got a few of everything.

That's my two cents whether it's "right" or not, I'm not sure. Hopefully I'll never find out.

 

[treevet]

Prob the success of attachment is dictated by the type of ejection. I ve heard of many righting cable failures that will tip you out like a cup of tea. Some guys just fall out of the side trying to reach too far. Recently I read of an accident where guy got bucket pinned under a stub and not realizing this he torqued the fiberglass section and was shot out like a spoon shooting a pea (no lanyard). There are many other scenerarios but hopefully you choose the attachment that saves your life. Few years ago a guy roped a big log and it swung into his upper boom breaking it in two and point of attachment was moot at that point.

 

[ropensaddle]

All those instances are green mistakes and improperly
trained operators as is the case most of the time. I would
think the safest way of tying in would be to the tree itself.
I remember in the early eighties a truck they nicknamed
death truck it was old trimlift that would drop four feet when
you broke center it was a spare and everyone hated the unit
I had to use it once and felt safer to tie in to tree and take up
slack when went up so if bucket failed I did not go with it lol.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

All those instances are green mistakes and improperly
trained operators as is the case most of the time. I would
think the safest way of tying in would be to the tree itself.
I remember in the early eighties a truck they nicknamed
death truck it was old trimlift that would drop four feet when
you broke center it was a spare and everyone hated the unit
I had to use it once and felt safer to tie in to tree and take up
slack when went up so if bucket failed I did not go with it lol.

I actually agree with the tree tie-in idea, and may go with that as I'm getting used to the whole bucket trip. I trust the trees, with rare exceptions, but buckets feel weird to me at this point. As I come to trust them, I'll probably just put on the harness and tie in to the bucket arm with the strap I'm getting for that. All of my new bucket stuff is due here Wednesday, according to the e-mail Sherrill just sent me.

 

[treevet]

I actually agree with the tree tie-in idea, and may go with that as I'm getting used to the whole bucket trip. I trust the trees, with rare exceptions, but buckets feel weird to me at this point. As I come to trust them, I'll probably just put on the harness and tie in to the bucket arm with the strap I'm getting for that. All of my new bucket stuff is due here Wednesday, according to the e-mail Sherrill just sent me.

Pls excuse me but the "in the bucket and tied in to the tree" theory is just plain silly. Pretty good chance you pull yourself right out of the bucket w a movement and if rope is on an angle, slam yourself right into a trunk. Only time I will be tied into the tree is when I am standing on the top lip of the bucket to reach a cut in either my 55 or 75 ft or when I get out to do some climbing I cannot boom to.

 

[jmack]

a short lanyard as industry suggests is what you want, in a pinch your tree saddle with a shortened lanyard is acceptable, if your co. is big enuff for osha to visit get the z-133 standards its in there, call tcia and they can probally answer the legal side over the phone, if your tying into the tree plan on getting your bucket moved out of the way when you climb out, but dont do both sounds shaky as tree vet stated just fly it j

 

[ropensaddle]

Pls excuse me but the "in the bucket and tied in to the tree" theory is just plain silly. Pretty good chance you pull yourself right out of the bucket w a movement and if rope is on an angle, slam yourself right into a trunk. Only time I will be tied into the tree is when I am standing on the top lip of the bucket to reach a cut in either my 55 or 75 ft or when I get out to do some climbing I cannot boom to.

Yeah but you were never asked to fly the death truck as I mentioned in early post! I tie in to bucket I trust but that bucket was a spare and not safe was a big company and they don't care they are not in the bucket. As far as it pulling you out of bucket yeah if you are a moron and can't pull taughtline or blake to give slack that could happen but you should not be in the bucket if you are a moron!The system worked fine for what I had to work with and would do the same if had to be in unsafe bucket, the early eighties were different. Big business will put you in unsafe lifts sometime in career as they care too much for dollars! It took more to red flag a bucket twenty five years ago than it does now so a smart feller had to improvise and the death truck was finally took out of the fleet in a different manner a crew fell a tree on it and totaled it . But really, if you ever had to fly something like we were given in the past you would already know about improvise!! I now have my own lift and will repair any unsafe issues as money is not as important as my well being.The company big business would have too many people in charge that have never been in a bucket or they were nephews of the manager so they got best equipment! Eventually they got manager and so on I hate the corp bs favoritism and that is why after twenty two years I now work for myself. One ride in the death truck and you would be tying in to the tree so don't knock an idea as you have never rode in anything like it.

 

[treevet]

Was referring to sunriseguy tying into tree w good bucket.

 

[Menchhofer]

We use the Exofit harness front D when in the bucket with a decel strap. After reading the articles on the trauma from the rear D attachments the front D seemed to be the safer alternative. Never had to use-hope I never do

 

[Industry]

Not really a concern for some of you guys, but I will NOT use a 6ft. decel lanyard being that I spend a considerable amount of time flying over 3 phase. IF you were to fall out over it with a decel you are more likely to make phase to phase or phase to ground contact because you fall further from your attachment point. no thanks.

 

[jrparbor04]

Just From Experience I Have Used A Full Body Harness With A D-ring On My Upper Back,,,with A Fall Arrest System,,,gotta Be Doing Something Completly Wrong To Fall From A Bucket Truck,,,alway Make Sure The Outriggers Are Safely On The Ground With A Pad Correctly