building with green lumber?

[junglesteader]

is building with green lumber more sustainable than seasoned lumber? thats a joke.

ive got a catch 22, my lady says i should build an out building for seasoning my wood before i buy the mill. i think i should buy the mill so i can make some lumber to build the out building .

any thoughts on building green? im sure it has mostly to do with the wood being used, it will be mostly java plum and guava. i know of one way to find out. but asking you guys is less work.
i got the bug already and dont even have the mill yet, ive been milling in my sleep.

 

[Nato]

oh it will get worse. soon you will start milling when your suppost to be at work.

 

[Macman125]

Usually after milling, the boards are laid down flat on top of each other with stingers perpendicular between them. This allows an air gap to dry faster plus keeps the board from warping while drying. I personally think that building with green wood would probably end with bad results. Being that things would shift and warp as it drys.

 

[harrygrey382]

yes build with green timber! In this case there is absolutely no advantage to using seasoned timber. I don't know about you but for me seasoned timber is a precious resource (well all timber is I guess), where as you can just go cut some green timber and use right away. Seasoned has to be bought at considerable cost or you have to mill it, store it properly as maclover says and then wait a long time. For building sheds the amount the timber will move and check is no problem at all. I've built so many green buildings, some of them proper houses (green oak timber framed buildings are very traditional in the UK) and it's fine. You have to understand the timber WILL move as dries, so don't be suprised.
Also, here quite a lot of hardwoods are basically unworkable when they're fully seasoned because they're so hard and dense. So you have to work them green in say building a house or shed/barn

 

[Bob_E]

The construction lumber sold in the big box stores around here can be pretty damp sometimes, and guys use that stuff every day...
You could knock together a temporary solar kiln and dry the boards for a permanent out building in about a couple months.
Or build a palm tree log cabin :msp_biggrin:

 

[isaaccarlson]

Green should be fine. Our barn was built green. It isn't perfectly straight and the walls warped some, but it is a good barn and has been up for 100 years.
Just remember that wood doesn't really shrink lengthwise. It gets thinner and narrower so gaps will get bigger. That is why older building used overlapping boards for the walls.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Welcome to the forum. As long as you build to allow for shrinkage (thickness & width, about 8%, depending on species), you'll be fine. I'm not familiar with your wood, so you might want to see if you can find shrinkage info. I built our home out of unseasoned oak right off the sawmill, and it is doing fine after 35 years. Post and beam construction with board & batt siding was developed so early builders could with green lumber. There are several techniques you should use, and a web search should give you the info you need. Consider building a shed for the mill first, then a lumber drying shed.

You're right about "green" being a confusing term when applied to wood (especially ash, since there is a species known a green ash). The sawdust bug only gets worse with time. Do you have a mill picked out yet? If you need for someone to come to Hawaii to help you set it up, I think you'll get a few volunteers from the forum.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[rarefish383]

As Dave Boyt said, board and batten building is an old time tested style. I think one of the basics is, you only nail the boards on one side, with a small gap between the boards. Then the batten is nailed over the crack, again with only one nail in the center of the Batten. That will allow the wider boards to move and shrink. The battens will hold the other side of the board (that was not nailed) down. Do a search for "using my milled wood--board and batten siding" and you will see what I mean. mtngun has some good pics, Joe.

 

[flashhole]

What about beams (6" by 12" by 12') Same 8% rule apply? Ash and hemlock are the materials.

 

[Dave Boyt]

Post and beam design has to accommodate movement. We've got one post in our house that twisted as it dried, but with no ill effects. The oak we used cracked as it dried, but that would have happened during air drying anyway. Still plenty of wood to hold up the house! Beams will tend to sag as they dry. To avoid this, put up the triangular bracing when you set them in place. Tight knots should be on the top of the beam so that they will be in compression. Your green 6" by 12" by 12' beam will shrink to about 5-1/2" by 11" by 11'11" when it dries. There are some good books & web sites on post & beam design. Joinery is an art form in itself!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

As Dave Boyt said, board and batten building is an old time tested style. I think one of the basics is, you only nail the boards on one side, with a small gap between the boards. Then the batten is nailed over the crack, again with only one nail in the center of the Batten. That will allow the wider boards to move and shrink. The battens will hold the other side of the board (that was not nailed) down. Do a search for "using my milled wood--board and batten siding" and you will see what I mean. mtngun has some good pics, Joe.

That's not how we do them... I nail them in the center of the board (crown side up) then let the battens hold the edges down.

SR

 

[rarefish383]

Thanks Rob, that's why I said "I think". I knew the batten would hold down the sides, but wasn't sure if it held both sides or just one side. My main point was, do not nail a double row down both sides of the board, that wouldn't allow for any movement. I'll be building a board and batten tractor shed soon, on my farm in WV. So, I'll probably be back here looking at as many pics as I can find, Joe.

 

[rapattack]

If your planning a post and beam structure, then cast in screw jack post saddles into your concrete footing for each post. This way you can compensate later for when the beams shrink. If your framing walls, leave them un-cladded for six months to air dry, but strap the walls to help resist twist. Once most of the shrinkage in the walls has occurred then side them as per local code requirements.

 

[mortenh]

What about beams (6" by 12" by 12') Same 8% rule apply? Ash and hemlock are the materials.

Shrinkage varies by species. Specific shrinkage values are available here: WoodCentral's BP Archives: Wood Shrinkage Values

 

[foursaps]

most timber frames are built green. we use mostly doug fir, oak, and pine.

I built my fathers sugar house completely out of green lumber, with no ill effects.

you will be fine, and have a good reason to play with the mill!

 

[woodchuck357]

In my experience, there is much less shrinkage in lenght than one in in twelve feet.

Post and beam design has to accommodate movement. Your green 6" by 12" by 12' beam will shrink to about 5-1/2" by 11" by 11'11" when it dries. There are some good books & web sites on post & beam design. Joinery is an art form in itself!

More like 1/4 inch in 12 feet.

 

[thanshew]

I'm brand new to milling my own material. I'm going to start using some of my milled wood for outdoor projects. Tables, sheds etc. My first question is can I build a table with green material and if so what are things to consider. Also, how do I seal the wood from the elements if its green?

Thank you all for your input and guidance.

 

[rarefish383]

Outdoor stuff can be built green. I build't this bench in my wife's potting shed a few days after I milled it. Put several coats of Minwax Wipe on Poly on it. It's 3-4 years old now. No finishes that I know of hold up long exposed to the sun. On a shed I'd just let it gray out. More folks will be along with good info and advice, Joe.

 

[thanshew]

Thank you. That's a beautiful bench.

 

[golddredgergold]

I built two 12ft x 10ft sheds out of fresh green cut lumber right off my mill litterly carried over and nailed into the structure
Great buildings. Board and batten siding. Also lumber green right off the mill and hammered up. Sheds are now 4 years old and still standing proud and full of my projects and dried lumber.