Cabling Question

[Mikecutstrees]

ANSI A300 gives specifications for cabling hardware in relation to branch diameter and loading. How do I figure loading? I have ordered the book but from reading online it doesn't explain this important point. How does angle of attachment, size of branch/stem, wind loads etc etc factor into this? The reason I ask is that I have a customer who had a large sugar maple cabled in their yard by another tree company and the cable has broke. I replaced the cable today but am now second guessing the original cabling. It seems too low/ too small/ and may need bracing. Or the tree may need to be removed/ or possibly one side removed? The cable has been in the tree for 8-10 years. I want to do the right thing for this tree/ customer but it's a tough call. Any constructive advise would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[treeseer]

I want to do the right thing for this tree/ customer but it's a tough call. Any constructive advise would be appreciated. Thanks

1. Spend $5 and get the BMPs.

2. Post a picture.

If you reinstalled the cable too low, with the wrong material, and it fails, you may be liable. check the fasteners at www.rigguy.com

 

[Mikecutstrees]

Thanks treeseer, I do realize how this installation is a problem liability wise and this was the precise reason I was asking questions. Thank you for the link. I have seen those rigguy fasteners in catalogs and I think they may be an excellent solution to many cabling problems. They seem better than eye bolts because they require a smaller hole and better than lags because they have much higher holding power. they also look simple to install and would heal over quickly. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow as today it is now dark and I was busy all day.

 

[Toddppm]

Anybody have much experience with the rigguy components? I just went and restocked on some dead ends etc. and was thinking of getting some of those. It just seems like overkill and more chance of structural damage drilling all the way through if you don't have to?

 

[treeseer]

more chance of structural damage drilling all the way through if you don't have to?

Which is more damaging, a 1" hole that is 6" deep for a lag, or a 7/16" hole all the way through for a wirestop?

ANSI says through-hardware is required on any limb >10".

 

[randyg]

Rigguy terminals

Install cable between one half and two thirds of the way from the crotch to the crown, never lower than half. 7/16 inch hole will accomodate 3/8 inch cable (EHS) rated around 14,000 lbs I believe with rigguy terminals rated same as cable. Make sure and bend over that center strand to keep from loosing the cone (center) and know that it will never loosen or fall off. Best way I know. Should be able to sight through holes from either limb and see the hole on opposite limb. Did that make sense?

 

[Toddppm]

Thanks for the info.

I've always just used cables, lags and dead ends. Only have used through bolting on cracks. But then again I don't do much cabling, haven't heard or seen anything before that states the more than 10" requires through bolts, doesn't seem like such a big deal on a larger branch though? My info might be too old I guess but I haven't installed a cobra system yet either.

 

[kennertree]

Anybody have much experience with the rigguy components? I just went and restocked on some dead ends etc. and was thinking of getting some of those. It just seems like overkill and more chance of structural damage drilling all the way through if you don't have to?

This thread is a little old but I figured I would metion my expierence with rigguy. I had a cable job today and tried those little dudes out. They are great, makes cabling alot faster than using dead end grips. They are so easy to install. Try these things out if you haven't yet, you'll be glad you did.

 

[md_tree_dood]

I have the opposite experience, the rigguy seemed much harder to put in then eyebolts and there are alot of parts to the system. As far as the size hole, the benefits, in my opinion, far outweigh the risks.

 

[treevet]

Which is more damaging, a 1" hole that is 6" deep for a lag, or a 7/16" hole all the way through for a wirestop?

ANSI says through-hardware is required on any limb >10".

Just to clarify this.....this 10" is "at anchor attachment point" and not the dia of the limb at max.

 

[jomoco]

Which is more damaging, a 1" hole that is 6" deep for a lag, or a 7/16" hole all the way through for a wirestop?

ANSI says through-hardware is required on any limb >10".

I don't get it Treeseer, how the heck can you tension the cable using these new wire stops short of a turnbuckle?

I went to the website, and they're totally mum about how it's done, the whole critical subject of achieving proper cable tension is conspicuously absent.

Am I missing something?

jomoco

 

[treevet]

I don't get it Treeseer, how the heck can you tension the cable using these new wire stops short of a turnbuckle?

I went to the website, and they're totally mum about how it's done, the whole critical subject of achieving proper cable tension is conspicuously absent.

Am I missing something?

jomoco

Like I said I was gonna do, Jon, I just got the ANSI A300 Part3, 2006....as I suspected....not a breath of a word about this termination in there. They are keeping their hands off of it for multiple reasons IMO.

 

[appalachianarbo]

I have the opposite experience, the rigguy seemed much harder to put in then eyebolts and there are alot of parts to the system.

Not for me. I love wirestops. I put in four cables with them last week. As far as # of parts vs. a through bolt, they actually use less. To put in a wirestop, you need a nut and a taper. For a through bolt, you need the bolt, a thimble, and a dead end grip. Right?

how the heck can you tension the cable using these new wire stops short of a turnbuckle?

Comealong. How do you normally tension a cable?

 

[jomoco]

Like I said I was gonna do, Jon, I just got the ANSI A300 Part3, 2006....as I suspected....not a breath of a word about this termination in there. They are keeping their hands off of it for multiple reasons IMO.

15K rated turnbuckle?

Didn't see any available on their website!

jomoco

 

[pdqdl]

1. Anchor one end of the cable to the tree, install your wire stop.
2. Set a winch of any preferred style (cable, chain, or strap) immediatley next to the hole in the branch at the 2nd anchor point.
3. Use a cable-grab device to pull the loose end of the cable tight. One of these will probably work: http://www.cable-lashers.com/id85.html
4. Tighten the cable to the tension you are seeking, pull the excess cable through the branch, then set your rigguy nuts.
5. Remove winch/come-along. Done!

I have only done one tree this way. It's ok, but I won't take that heavy chain hoist if I can find a nice light cable winch.

Their website used to have a video demonstrating the method, but they don't seem to be there anymore.

 

[treevet]

Not for me. I love wirestops. I put in four cables with them last week. As far as # of parts vs. a through bolt, they actually use less. To put in a wirestop, you need a nut and a taper. For a through bolt, you need the bolt, a thimble, and a dead end grip. Right?


Comealong. How do you normally tension a cable?

After getting hit with a hurricane 2 months ago and constant barrage of extreme storms, I am looking for the system that is best outlined by ANSI so I can follow them to a T in the event of a court encounter. I have cabled successfully for 40 years but these days I am into CYA.

Rigguy is not included in ANSI. Just because it is easier is not a good enough reason to use it. I don't like the hidden stretch of cable unable to be inspected and I do not like the seperation of the cable for the wedge and nut. Static systems have to be foolproof to some degree because if it fails then a "throw" gives more chance of a failure.

A disclaimer has never been a way out in court if negligence is complicit with injury.

PS. If I ever had to go to court you can expect to see me with a copy of ANSI standard tucked right under my armpit.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I used the rig guy wire stops for a while and I thought they were more difficult to use that eye bolts and dead end grips. Working on the backside of the limb was difficult when climbing. I'm sure in the bucket it would be easier though. Also getting the EHS wire seperated and evenly spaced was difficult for me too. I also like the long precident set by eye bolt hardware in the tree care industry. So Iv'e gone back to traditional methods..... Mike

 

[jomoco]

1. Anchor one end of the cable to the tree, install your wire stop.
2. Set a winch of any preferred style (cable, chain, or strap) immediatley next to the hole in the branch at the 2nd anchor point.
3. Use a cable-grab device to pull the loose end of the cable tight. One of these will probably work: http://www.cable-lashers.com/id85.html
4. Tighten the cable to the tension you are seeking, pull the excess cable through the branch, then set your rigguy nuts.
5. Remove winch/come-along. Done!

I have only done one tree this way. It's ok, but I won't take that heavy chain hoist if I can find a nice light cable winch.

Their website used to have a video demonstrating the method, but they don't seem to be there anymore.

I get what you're saying, but it sounds like a pita.

The threads on my drop forged steel eybolts give me up to 8 inches of tensioning adjustment by turning the nut with a crescent wrench on my 5/8ths throughbolts.

And my new alignment tool slows me down enough already, but it's worth the time to get exact alignment.

And 06 ansi 300 specs call for true cable to hardware alignment.

jomoco

 

[JeffL]

Getting tension? Easy! I do alot of double crotching for cabling, so for pieces I can suck together with my rope and buckstrap I will, if not, just make a quick rope come along with a tag line set higher up in the 2 limbs you are pulling together. Takes a little grunting sometimes, but overall pretty simple.