can tree work be learned??

[mpatch]

I have trained quite a few people...(some could hardly spell their name, some college grads). Either you get it or you don't. Is "tree work" something that can be taught? I say kinda. One of the best men I ever worked with fell into the category of "simple" yet he could do trees.

 

[Natewood]

you can train anyone with enough time and effort to be good at it, but those who are great have a gift

 

[mpatch]

you can train anyone with enough time and effort to be good at it, but those who are great have a gift

I disagree.

 

[Natewood]

about which part? any one can learn??

 

[TreeAce]

I have decided to start training a young man this season. He has been a ground man for a few years now and I think he can do it. I am handing over a copy of "Tree Climbers Companion" tomorrow. We start there. I will know how much he is reading it based on the questions he asks me and how he answers the questions I ask him. This will tell me what he's willing to do inorder to learn. If he wont read a simple (and very interesting) book then I prolly wont waste my time. I agree with "tree work is teachable..KINDA"

 

[Natewood]

maybe i should say anyone who wants to learn could end up good... But what is up with all these groundies who cant do moderate difficulty rigging??!! like they have no sense in basic physics....

 

[mpatch]

some "get it" some don't, real simple

 

[justme23005]

some "get it" some don't, real simple

exactly..... common sense just isnt very common, any more.. most rigging is just using common sense.

 

[Natewood]

i think most of it has to do with a lot of our society refusing to apply themselves... excuses and gov(or parent) assistance is so much easier!!

 

[jefflovstrom]

I run 12 to 14 guy's and training is weekly. I started in 1977 and am CTSP and if I need help, I call it in and have a day of training!
Jeff :msp_flapper:

 

[prentice110]

Oh God, where to begin.... Most of the ones that try to do it, and even want to be 'good' or 'great' , will never come close. Hell, these days, If I even needed a climber Id settle for 'safe'. Seems like the good ones are so few and far between. Any one round here thats any good owns there own. You try to teach usually its a waste of time or $ or both. Everyone knows 90% of who your gonna get walkin thru the door aint gonna be worth piss. The other 10% you really have to think about whether or not to make the investment in time. Hate to say it but , on second thought I just wont go there, yet. But no, you either have it or you dont. Maybe....

 

[Nailsbeats]

Yes, treework can be learned, but the learning curve is sharp. The best have natural abilities and a great understanding of the details that the rest never will.

I've seen evidence of it on this very forum, you can post videos and pictures of things, I mean put it right in people's faces and the one's that don't really understand are usually the first to bark, pick and expose there inexperience.

Treework is all applied physics, but you must understand it and be able to apply it efficiently at the same time to be great. Many just don't ever get past the surface, and that's fine, they can stay on the ground with the rake.

 

[lego1970]

I have trained quite a few people...(some could hardly spell their name, some college grads). Either you get it or you don't. Is "tree work" something that can be taught? I say kinda. One of the best men I ever worked with fell into the category of "simple" yet he could do trees.

Can tree work be learned?
Kinda depends on what aspect of tree work you are talking about. For now I will assume you are talking climbing trees to trim or remove.

I would say yes, 95% of the population could be taught to do tree work. Afterall if we are talking useing ropes and cutting then yes most could be taught enough of the basics to do the job. Could 95% understand the all the physics behind it, no but then how many of us truely understand the "and" "or" "nor" gates on a microprocessor, yet we can still navigate around a computer pretty efficiently. Could 95% of the population handle the fear factor? No, I would say about 50% of the population could handle the fear factor. Could 95% of the population handle the physical aspect of it, no. I would again say about 50% of the population could handle the physical aspect (meaning both endurance, strength, and cordination) of the job.

So all that being said, 5% will never be able to understand it, then 50% of the remaining 95% are out the door because they won't be able to handle the fear factor leaving you only 47.5%, then another 50% of the remaining 47.5% will have
the physical ability to do the job, leaving you with only 23.75% of the population able to do the job of a tree climber.

Of that 23.75% it can be further broken down to with other demographics like age, location, other job opportunities, etc, etc, and the end result is that only about 1% of the population will both be able and in a situation to want to become a tree climber/worker.

Of that 1%, only 10% will have no fear, be intelligent, be in great physical shape (remember I'm not talking "greek gods" I'm talking the whole aspect of what is considered great physical shape), and not have other factors such as drug problems or other issues that
affect their ability to do a great job making them "the best of the best". Then there is the motivation factor which is a whole other factor/subject in itself. The remaining 90% of the 1% will be somewhere in the middle between poor, average, and good.

Me, I'm poor to average. I say that because I don't climb much. When I'm climbing full time, I'm average to good. I have my moments of greatness, but then I have my moments that are.....well less then great.

Kinda like I was watching an Indy race back in the early 90's and they were saying that your average driver (take away fear factor, physical conditions, and intelligence) could take those Indy cars around the track at 210mph, a good driver could take it around at 215mph, but it takes a great driver to take the car around the track at 218mph. I think the same probably applies to tree work.

Just my thinking.

 

[treemandan]

I run 12 to 14 guy's and training is weekly. I started in 1977 and am CTSP and if I need help, I call it in and have a day of training!
Jeff :msp_flapper:

Good stuff! Can't rep right now, I usually only give that #### out for tree work.

 

[treemandan]

Ya got to want it! Really, really, really, really, really want it.

 

[PinnaclePete]

Ya got to want it! Really, really, really, really, really want it.

AND you have to really, really, really enjoy it. If you hate your job, you don't put in the effort to learn it, do it correctly or do it safely. When I do training, it's easy to spot the guys who don't give a ####, think they know it all, or are just there because the boss told them to.

The one's who are right there in front, ask questions, give input, participate, are interested and want to get better by learning are the ones you can teach. The others will never learn - it's not their thing. The biggest part of training is motivation.

Everyone can learn anything, but to be good or great at it, they have to want it as Dan said.

 

[lxt]

Tree work has to be taught "hands on" no book or video is gonna help ya when your 60+ foot off the ground taking hang off over powerlines or someones house!

I remember when I started........I was told a bucket truck was a luxury & to get my tools on & get my azz up there! I hear guys say I have 6, 7 years experience & they think thats alot!!!

Truth is our youth have been spoiled by technology & when physical work outside of a sport needs done vey few stick around on the other hand many new businesses starting up in tree work have non skilled or skilled to the point of being dangerous owners/workers & their first question is always "what kinda bucket should I buy?" LOL or.....the ole, I wanna learn to climb, "what kinda saddle" SCARY...these guys are the new biz starting up on the block!!

many in this biz who think they are good & we all do!! really arent that good......I know of a local biz with some young guys who apprenticed for 1 1/2 - 2yrs they got some tools & claim they`re the best climbing arborists around......LOL to make a claim like that with 2yrs experience is ridiculous let alone owning/operating a tree care biz with only that much experience!!!

So as for the question of "being learned" in what capacity? what method(s)?....the real question should be: when does one know enough to be recognized as having proper ability to perform all tasks at hand????? anyone who wants to learn can be taught & I agree that a really good climber has some "special gifts" maybe thats the common sense or the fact that it comes a little more naturally to em???




LXT..............

 

[beastmaster]

I don't think most grounds men can be trained, and to put some people in a tree is an accident waiting to happen. Lot of people lack the basic common sense it takes to safely climb a tree. I've trained a lot of climbers over the years. I'm like a old mother hen with my trainees. I'm on them(poor guys)
Worse then the ones with no common sense, are the ones who are way over confident in their ability
An accident can happen in a heart beat to the best of us. The wrong person in the tree with a chain saw is tempting fate. I've seen guys freeze when the wind starts blowing, I've seen two people fall after cutting their safety lines.
Back in the day we would send a rookie up a skinny green pine to put in a tipping line, then,"wind check them", and if they started sobbing they were back to grounds man. Harsh yes, but we were a harsh crew and wanted the best. Thats unacceptable these days, as it should be, but we wanted the cream of the crop and got em.(That was 25+years ago) beastmaster

 

[Koa Man]

Like anything, some will just be better at it than others, even with the same training and experience. Doesn't matter whether it is tree work, surfing, wood working, golf, football. A select few will have great natural ability for a specific task. There is a guy here that blows everybody else away in trimming palms and hardly breaks a sweat doing it. A lot of other climbers, including myself, can't figure out how he is so fast and why he doesn't perspire much either.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I don't think most grounds men can be trained, and to put some people in a tree is an accident waiting to happen. Lot of people lack the basic common sense it takes to safely climb a tree. I've trained a lot of climbers over the years. I'm like a old mother hen with my trainees. I'm on them(poor guys)
Worse then the ones with no common sense, are the ones who are way over confident in their ability
An accident can happen in a heart beat to the best of us. The wrong person in the tree with a chain saw is tempting fate. I've seen guys freeze when the wind starts blowing, I've seen two people fall after cutting their safety lines.
Back in the day we would send a rookie up a skinny green pine to put in a tipping line, then,"wind check them", and if they started sobbing they were back to grounds man. Harsh yes, but we were a harsh crew and wanted the best. Thats unacceptable these days, as it should be, but we wanted the cream of the crop and got em.(That was 25+years ago) beastmaster

When the wind starts blowing, you just have to sink your teeth into er' to stabilize up a bit.

Reminds me of the 70' White Oak I took down the other day in 30mph winds. The main target was a shed that the wind was blowing in the direction of. I did half of the tree and called it off to finnish the next day. First time I ever did that, didn't have the proper help though to finnish a stunt like that.