Chain filing: into cutting edge or away from?

[Oregon_Rob]

As I am always interested in a better mousetrap, I have been looking for the ultimate chain and grind/file technique for milling. One of the players in the chainsaw mill arena claims that by filing in the reverse direction (file into the cutting edge, instead of through the cutter and away from it) that the chrome edge is left undamaged and stays sharp longer or equals more time between filings.
I’m sure that someone here has tried it, any comments?

 

[weimedog]

I did that for years...but the guys I work with told me its not the right way. So I changes to the conventional way..at work. I find it can (not always) leave a burr to roll over filing away from the edge. When I file towards the edge there is never a burr. BUT it seems with some (not all) chain it doesn't make as sharp an edge. The chain I use at work the conventional way works just fine. My Oregon chain at home doesn't care. Both methods work. But filing into the edge never leaves a burr. So thats what I do.

(I in no way have any large amont of chainsaw knowledge so consider my imperical data observations from a chain saw novice, but as a BSME, many years of machine tool experience, several years as a Excavation business owner using a variety of heavy equipment, and one who generally will explore before casting a method in stone....)

I also sharpen my knives and blades for my farm equipment INTO the edge...works for me.

Why not just try both and see which works for you? Whats the risk? A dull chain?

 

[Shade]

typically, creating a burr is the first step to making something "sharp" I'm still working on my chainsaw techniques for milling, but I can put a pretty mean edge on a knife/chisel/plane blade.

Check out these guys for knife sharpening stuff, the owner wrote an awesome book on sharpening, he breifly talks about chainsaw filing, but not to the depth of other edged tools.

 

[rb_in_va]

link?

Shade, creating a burr is the first step to making something sharp? Then what's the second step?

 

[Shade]

http://www.razoredgesystems.com/

sorry, I meant to put that link into the first one...

sorta "polishing" the burr off, that's what stropping a razor does, it keeps rolling the burr until it breaks off. It's a source of debate amongst sharpening enthusiasts, which seems funny to most people to even argue about, but you know how passions are, lol...

[edit]
to expound a bit, I grind a side until I get a burr, then I grind the other side until I get a burr, then I go to a finer stone, and start polishing out the grooves left from the rough one... as you get the edge sharper, you apply less pressure, then do a final alignment of the edge with a steel.

anyways, enough of knife stuff, back to the chains.. I always file until I get a burr, leave the burr and go to the next tooth. I figure the wood burnishes the burr off when you start the cut

 

[Lewis Brander]

Sharpening Sawchain:

I'm no expert chain sharpener. I do very little free hand sharpening, but use a guide whenever possible. I might touch up a chain frehand in a pinch, but usually use a guide on the bar at days end to get ready for the next day. I've experimented with sharpening with the guide. Setting up and filling at slightly different angles, etc. But one thing I do find is that if you file out of the link, you may get some burrs, but to me the chain cutting edge lasts longer doing it that way, your files last longer and your not fighting against the chainedge while filing in the other direction. Also, I file in one direction only and don't back drag the file on the return stroke. I also sharpen a few links and then loosen and rotate my file in the guide, say a 1/4 turn at a time, while using the guide. Also helps to stop and clean the file every few links. Maintaining the proper angles is also important. JMO. Lewis.

 

[rb_in_va]

I always found that a burr would cause the tip of the cutter (be it a drill bit, machine tool, or whatever) to break off prematurely. In fact, after a machine tool was sharpened, we would grind a small radius (1/64-1/32) on the tip of the tool. With drill bits, we would take a stone and run it across the tip of the freshly ground cutting surface. This would keep the tip from digging into soft materials such as brass and bronze, and help it to stay sharp longer.

 

[Crofter]

Too much tendency to chatter when cutting into the tooth. Files last longer inside to out. Chisel bit or square filing you have to do from the outside in to be able to see the angles and the corner properly, but usually chain is in a clamp.

Frank

 

[MasterBlaster]

I never run my saw at less than 90% sharp. No freaking way. It's too easy to make it right. And I'm lazy... I want my stuff sharp.

 

[DirtTroll]

I may be right, I may be wrong, but I will describe the way I sharpen.

I first started sharping chains 23 years ago for my grandfather who operated a sawmill and sawed all his own trees when I was 12 years old. Within a year I was sharping all of his saws most of which were full chisel .404 chain.

I always sharpen (file) the chains on the saws. Putting them somewhere else wastes time and is a wasted operation. I start by putting my left thumb on the cutter pressing down to prevent chattering. Then with my right hand I file from the outside in. There are two reasons for this. First, when filing from the outside in you don't create a burr or "cold work" the cutting edge. Second, I find it easier to keep the angle correct from the outside.

Why is this burr and cold working the edge so bad you ask. Let me explain. You never sharpen knives or chisels this way for this very reason. If you sharpen from the inside out you run the chance of burring the edge or at the minimum of cold working the edge. When you cold work metal you take it beyond the elastic state and deform the metal. This makes the metal at the edge very brittle and alot weaker. So the best that you can hope for with inside out sharping is a cold worked (weak & brittle) cutting edge and possibly a burred (blunt) cutting edge.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what its worth.

 

[Oregon_Rob]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel


If dull chains or burrs are an issue for you, then practice filing more often. Don't keep running the saw after you hit dirt because you only have 6 cuts left. A chain is much easier to file BEFORE you run it dull for another 10 minutes and get it good and hot, as well as stretching it all out of shape. My personal rule is if the chain is sagging at all, then I need to stop and touch it up. I refuse to run loose or dull chains because it just isn't necessary.

RockyJ,
Where did you get the idea that i was running a dull chain?
I'm just trying to see what options there are to help extend the time between filing, i'm milling with a 32" bar and an Alaskan mill, so every time i stop to file, it is a good bit of time to remove the bar or re-adjust the milling fixture and there are a lot of cutters on a 32" full comp chain.

 

[victorytea]

MasterBlaster! Great pic of Bush beating Saddam- can you put Kerry's face there in November? Sure hope so. Paul