chainsaw bars

[davidbrac]

What do people find are the best bars for milling, l have a couple of sthil bars that fit on my MS660. These are

• rollermatic E 20"
• rollermatic es 30"

my thoughts are that the rollermatic 20" seems to perform better at getting oil to the chain and less clogging.

What are other peoples experiences and what do you consider the best bars for milling?

thanks

David

 

[betterbuilt]

That is a loaded question. We all have different milling conditions. species, size of logs and I assume most of us are using an auxiliary oiler. Some of use make boards and the others make slabs and then there's the ones that do both.

I am using a double ended bar on my 066 with a helper handle. I like the set up but if If I had to do it again I would buy a regular bar with a replaceable nose.

 

[BobL]

What do people find are the best bars for milling, l have a couple of sthil bars that fit on my MS660. These are

• rollermatic E 20"
• rollermatic es 30"

my thoughts are that the rollermatic 20" seems to perform better at getting oil to the chain and less clogging.

What are other peoples experiences and what do you consider the best bars for milling?

thanks

David

Oiling is a much less of issue if you use an alaskan style mill and run an aux-oiler and more of an issue for single ended mills milling with longer bars in which case the longer the bar the bigger the problems
I have used roller sprocket and hard nose bars and there's not much difference between them provided the chain tension is well maintained.

 

[gemniii]

In some thread on AS I ran across the comment that the 660 oiler has been
'tuned" to optimally oil Stihl bars and chains, and not the ground, and I suspect that is with Stihl oil.
In Lakeside's epic oiler pump upgrade http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31559 he shows you how to replace the parts necessary to upgrade. I think the parts cost about $35. Or you can replace the entire pump for about $75.

As BobL said if your milling you should be running an external oiler for wide wood.

 

[splitpost]

What do people find are the best bars for milling, l have a couple of sthil bars that fit on my MS660. These are

• rollermatic E 20"
• rollermatic es 30"

my thoughts are that the rollermatic 20" seems to perform better at getting oil to the chain and less clogging.

What are other peoples experiences and what do you consider the best bars for milling?

thanks

David

I personally prefer the es bar over the e bar ,i think the difference your experiencing is more about the length difference not the e vs es bit,in saying that my 660 puts out nearly the same over the 36" bar as the 20",:dunno: have u got your oiler turned up ?

 

[BobL]

In some thread on AS I ran across the comment that the 660 oiler has been
'tuned" to optimally oil Stihl bars and chains, and not the ground, and I suspect that is with Stihl oil.
In Lakeside's epic oiler pump upgrade http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31559 he shows you how to replace the parts necessary to upgrade. I think the parts cost about $35. Or you can replace the entire pump for about $75.

Adding extra oil at the powerhead generally means flinging more oil of at the nose. eg The 3120 with the 54 ml/min oil boost dumps most of that extra oil off at the nose.

As BobL said if your milling you should be running an external oiler for wide wood.

Another alternative is to put the power head on the other side and use the top of the bar?

 

[gemniii]

Adding extra oil at the powerhead generally means flinging more oil of at the nose. eg The 3120 with the 54 ml/min oil boost dumps most of that extra oil off at the nose.



Another alternative is to put the power head on the other side and use the top of the bar?

First of all congrats on your 5,000th post.

My concern is when running longer bars for cutting (not milling) w/o an aux oiler. Besides, can't the oilers be turned down?

On my 660 I can't turn them up any more and they don't get enough oil out to spray. I want them to be able to spray, then turn them down a bit. Oil is cheaper than bars.

Do you run Aussie (high output) oilers?

 

[DRB]

I have a 36" rollermatic bar on my 088 with no aux. oiler and it holding up just fine.

 

[gemniii]

I have a 36" rollermatic bar on my 088 with no aux. oiler and it holding up just fine.

And I've a 28" bar on my JD CS 62 and it squirts all over the place if turned up on full.
My 021 has plenty of oil, my Efco puts out plenty of oil.

I was only writing about the minimal oil put out by the recent MS660's, and especially with longer bars and non Stihl bars and chains.

 

[davidbrac]

I tend to cut slabs on a m7 logosol with a sthil MS660. The reason l am asking the question is that even though l have bar oiling turning up to maximum l am seeing a dry hot bar and with the latest batch of yew that l have been milling the bar has been clogging up. Oiling is working OK and l keep the saw and bars clean and well maintained.

It sounds as if the answer is to add external oiling, but not sure how to do this at present.

I was also interested in what is the best bars for milling, l'm in the UK and we don't get all the products that other countries have, but l will be in the States early next year so there is a possibility l can look at some new options.

 

[BobL]

I tend to cut slabs on a m7 logosol with a sthil MS660. The reason l am asking the question is that even though l have bar oiling turning up to maximum l am seeing a dry hot bar and with the latest batch of yew that l have been milling the bar has been clogging up. Oiling is working OK and l keep the saw and bars clean and well maintained.

Your last sentence seems to contradict your first. If the oiler is working properly the bar should not be dry. The non-Aussie 660 only has a maximum oil delivery rate on 21 mL/min which is kinda on the low side for longer bars. On the 076, which has s similar rate (max 19 mL/min), it struggles with bars longer than 30", especially in dry Aussie hardwoods. The 880 has a max flow rate of 38 mL/min which is good for up to about 42" of bar although I still run an aux oiler at all bar lengths and roughly match the amount of oil coming from the aux oiler with that coming from the saw.

If you oiler is working OK (ie not blocked or damaged) I'd then be looking at raker depths. The saws that people bring to me to look at that have dry bars generally have rakers that are too high so the saw is working much harder than it should be. Are you using a progressive raker depth setting tool?

It sounds as if the answer is to add external oiling, but not sure how to do this at present.

This is quite difficult to do with a one ended mill like the logosol. One possibility is to add an "over-arm" to the mill like Railomatic does. Then you can hang an aux oiler of that.

 

[BobL]

First of all congrats on your 5,000th post.

Thanks

My concern is when running longer bars for cutting (not milling) w/o an aux oiler. Besides, can't the oilers be turned down?

Sure, I tend to run my saw oiler at max rate and then adjust the aux-oiler accordingly.

On my 660 I can't turn them up any more and they don't get enough oil out to spray. I want them to be able to spray, then turn them down a bit. Oil is cheaper than bars.

I get an idea of correct flow rates when cutting from two indicators.
One is the pooling of oil on the bar like this.

The other is the amount of oil spray onto the outboard side of the log from the aux-oiler - this is probably a bit high but certainly I like to see spatters of oil on the log. Unfortunately it's not easy to see on rough barked logs.

Do you run Aussie (high output) oilers?

As far as I know only the 660 has the high output oiler (if you buy the saw in Oz it comes as standard) but I didn't think high output oilers were available for other models?

 

[davidbrac]

Your last sentence seems to contradict your first. If the oiler is working properly the bar should not be dry.

Sorry - the bar is oiling but it looks as if it is not oiling enough, parts of it look dry. and there is like a resin (from the wood) build up on the chain

I'd then be looking at raker depths. The saws that people bring to me to look at that have dry bars generally have rakers that are too high so the saw is working much harder than it should be. Are you using a progressive raker depth setting tool?

I am using the standard stihl Depth Gauge & Bar Groove Cleaner, so would be interested to find out more about progressive rake's

 

[BobL]

Sorry - the bar is oiling but it looks as if it is not oiling enough, parts of it look dry. and there is like a resin (from the wood) build up on the chain



I am using the standard stihl Depth Gauge & Bar Groove Cleaner, so would be interested to find out more about progressive rake's

The stihl Depth Gauge & Bar Groove Cleaner tool generates the same raker depth irrespective of how worn the cutter is. However, to cut effectively all the way through the life of the cutter, the cutter geometry requires an ever increasing raker depth.

The short solution to this is to buy a Carlton File-o-plate (FOP) and use it. To understand why this works do a search on this site for FOP and or progressive raker depth setting.

A super geeky thread on this is here.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=114624&highlight=progressive

 

[davidbrac]

The stihl Depth Gauge & Bar Groove Cleaner tool generates the same raker depth irrespective of how worn the cutter is. However, to cut effectively all the way through the life of the cutter, the cutter geometry requires an ever increasing raker depth.

The short solution to this is to buy a Carlton File-o-plate (FOP) and use it. To understand why this works do a search on this site for FOP and or progressive raker depth setting.

A super geeky thread on this is here.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=114624&highlight=progressive

Thanks Bob that is very helpful and answerers some questions that l had, have ordered the carlton FOP and will give the new rake a try. Will also be exploring how to auxiliary oil, l think it maybe easier than l first thought