Charging for Consultations

[sgreanbeans]

One thing I have been working on or trying to figure out anyways! Consultations, when we go out on bids, how many of you get stuck giving way to much info to the HO for free, in other words, when I go to a bid, I am there to give them a price on work they want done, not a consultation. Many times they want me to walk the yard and tell them everything they want to know about their yard. I have no problem with a couple pointers, but getting tired of pretty much giving them a free consultation. What I was thinking about was a "Quick Consultation" for a 100 bucks, soil samples and the works 350. What do you guys do? What really burns me, is when I give up the booty and then they take the knowledge I was kind enough to bestow upon them and then they go hire a dirt bag to do the work I suggested. Time to get paid for the.....well! my time!
With this Quickie, they will get a write up on the spot on a standard form, watcha think?

 

[sgreanbeans]

Consulting opens you up to new areas of liability. Make sure your insurance covers it.

Like how, what liability's?

 

[Bigus Termitius]

At this point, I'm open to let the estimate evolve somewhat, but I'm usually a bit reserved and turn the conversation back around to the task at hand to close the sale. I had a local doctor's wife call me a few weeks ago and she wants a full on large property consultation under the guise of free estimate. The property is about an hour away. She seems smart and professional, a bit condescending, she cares about trees and knows a little, but I just put it off till the end of the summer. I told her that it would have to be when I'm rained out here, because I'm too busy to hard schedule something like that when I could be working. That was the hint that I’m busy enough and if their confidence isn't high enough to pay me for my time on a consult, then they'll get it when I have nothing better to do....like around christmas time.

I've been considering becoming a little more pointed about the difference between estimate and consultation.

 

[treeseer]

Dan's liability note is good, but it's all in the wording. (O and i love your new sig line, brudda)

I started charging for consults when i got ISA certified in 1992. Re free estimates, hand them your bid, and time they want to take after that is $X/minute or $XX/hour. Drive time out of my zone is extra.

Info given for free is not valued. If i get pushed for info on something i hand them an ISA consumer info brochure on that topic. 11 cents saves a lot of yakkin. :bang:

Best approach is online--clients send pics, i send general info linked. enough to whet the appetite for an onsite consult, not the whole story.

 

[highasatree]

If someone wants to pick my brain about the trees on their property (consultation) its $30. If I sign them for some work after that I'll wave the charges.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Do you still use 2 hats guy?

It gets a little tricky, but many people will be open to a small fee for diagnostics. If they want an off the cuff opinion I may give them something brief with a few suggestions for web search,

*there may be a girdling root over there, some chlorosis over here, if you would like to get into that more in-depth I need to charge for my time...

*for a partial or full landscape health survey I need $75/hr plus any expenses if we survey or take samples. I can do it as a formal report with a map, or a casual walk-through and verbal report as I coach you and your family in what to look for.

The key i've found it to try sounding professional and as if you do it regularly. Time is money, you've been doing this for years and have paid for the knowledge you have acquired.

 

[treeseer]

Do you still use 2 hats guy?

yup the clean one is for consulting

It gets a little tricky, but many people will be open to a small fee for diagnostics.

but many are open to a reasonable fee, $X00/hour. i get about one call a day average for a paid consult

If they want an off the cuff opinion I may give them something brief with a few suggestions for web search,
*there may be a girdling root over there, some chlorosis over here, if you would like to get into that more in-depth I need to charge for my time...

yup and and better yet to show them the top of the root and watch their eyebrows go up

*for a partial or full landscape health survey I need $75/hr plus any expenses if we survey or take samples. I can do it as a formal report with a map, or a casual walk-through and verbal report as I coach you and your family in what to look for.

yup and smart phones are nice; they can get 80-second videos emailed to them on the spot; saves on writing and pics

The key i've found it to try sounding professional and as if you do it regularly. Time is money, you've been doing this for years and have paid for the knowledge you have acquired.

Amen! attached is a look at putting it into words.

 

[beastmaster]

I am going on my first Paid consultation next week. The City of Pasadena, has vary strict rules on how their Oak are trimmed and by whom. Well this home owner misunderstood, bottom line she had her gardener cut it, and she took out 30% but it was all out of the top. They also have a 2'' rule, that being the largest branch size you can cut. She cut one that was 27''.
Some how the City let her off the hook, but she needs a written rehabilitation plan for the Live Oak.
It seems pretty straight forward, except the lady wants the tree removed. Its lifting her sidewalks and the branches are right over her roof she says. The City has guide lines for when an Oak can be removed. I doubt this tree falls under them. I am vary pro tree and lean towards preservation, but also feel once a mature tree is radically topped it loses its treeapeal.
I not even getting paid what this is worth but its a foot in the door of where I want to go with my career, but its getting more complicated by the minute.
I'm learning Consulting isn't always going to be so cut and dry. Everyone has an agenda and we have our own bias to deal with.
I just wanted to test soil and tell people whats best for their trees. I can see how it could get ugly real easy. Next time I'll charge a lot more to make it worth it. Beastmaster

 

[treeseer]

[ She cut one that was 27''. Some how the City let her off the hook,

that is incredible. why have an ordinance? and it musta been one skilled gardener, to climb and wahck that log.

but she needs a written rehabilitation plan for the Live Oak.
It seems pretty straight forward, except the lady wants the tree removed. Its lifting her sidewalks

so fix the sidewalk

and the branches are right over her roof she says.

so clear the roof. topping did not help her problems

The City has guide lines for when an Oak can be removed. I doubt this tree falls under them. I am vary pro tree and lean towards preservation, but also feel once a mature tree is radically topped it loses its treeapeal.

well restoring 27" cuts is a challenge... :bang:

I not even getting paid what this is worth but its a foot in the door of where I want to go with my career, but its getting more complicated by the minute.
I'm learning Consulting isn't always going to be so cut and dry. Everyone has an agenda and we have our own bias to deal with.
I just wanted to test soil and tell people whats best for their trees. I can see how it could get ugly real easy. Next time I'll charge a lot more to make it worth it.

ALL TRUE; YOU ARE LEARNING FAST! bottom line, don't quit your day job. i went to consulting at 40 and now at 60 would rather climb, half the time anyway. nice thing is, most paid consults can lead to contracting work; the 2-hat approach. jps referred to.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I resolved this issue, for myself, long ago. If someone calls for a free estimate, yeah, it's a free estimate as in: I'll do this work for this amount of money. As soon as a potential client gives me the, "I want you to tell me how to deal with this issue," or "I want to know what's going on with my trees," I tell them, straight and to the point, "My estimates for tree work are free. If you want me to come out and diagnose any and all problems you might be having with your trees, I charge $150/tree for a written report that includes steps you can take towards remediation, and if you want a lab work-up included in my report, using my in-house lab, that will be another $100/tree. My work-ups include both macro and microscopic soil, leaf and bark studies, an NPK analysis and an ambient salinity and pH test." The drop-out rate for chain rattlers/time wasters, after my spiel, is about 90%. The sooner you work your comeback lines out for yourself, the sooner you will stop wasting your time and money on those who don't care a thing about wasting it for you.

 

[sgreanbeans]

AWESOME STUFF GUYS, I want to go more to consulting, I am just about done with climbing. I climbed all day on Friday, nutin big few 60ftrs. Everything is good with the new saddle and new type of hitch
(using that moded VT) But still no matter how easy I take it, the next day is BAD. Today it took about 45 minutes of rubbing my my right arm to get it to quit sleeping, hits me from nowhere, scared it will do it up there! So I need to start switching over.


Next Q: Do you guys make up your own forms or get the ones from ISA / TCIA / Arbor Day?

Man, do I still have alot of work to do on my TCIA stuff, have been so busy that I think I will put it on the back burner till winter. Have most of the safety stuff done, so I think I will go after the CTSP cert yet this year, but the Accreditation, wow!

 

[Ax-man]

I resolved this issue, for myself, long ago. If someone calls for a free estimate, yeah, it's a free estimate as in: I'll do this work for this amount of money. As soon as a potential client gives me the, "I want you to tell me how to deal with this issue," or "I want to know what's going on with my trees," I tell them, straight and to the point, "My estimates for tree work are free. If you want me to come out and diagnose any and all problems you might be having with your trees, I charge $150/tree for a written report that includes steps you can take towards remediation, and if you want a lab work-up included in my report, using my in-house lab, that will be another $100/tree. My work-ups include both macro and microscopic soil, leaf and bark studies, an NPK analysis and an ambient salinity and pH test." The drop-out rate for chain rattlers/time wasters, after my spiel, is about 90%. The sooner you work your comeback lines out for yourself, the sooner you will stop wasting your time and money on those who don't care a thing about wasting it for you.

Good for you Sunrise. I also found out the same thing. Most people are looking for free information. As soon as you mention that you are going to charge them for a consultation they balk if they have to pay. I started referering people to the extension service if they wanted someone to come out and look at their trees.

I don't do consultations anymore because it was more or less a waste of time and if I did get some money it wasn't much. Most of the time the trees are so stressed and have gone so far downhill there really isn't much that can be done for them to bring them back.

I will return a phone call and give out some free information as most of the tree problems are commonplace and basically repeatitive if they know what kind of tree they have in their yard and make some general recommendations that they can do to try to save the tree. That is about as far as I will go these days.

 

[treeseer]

I resolved this issue, for myself, long ago. If someone calls for a free estimate, yeah, it's a free estimate as in: I'll do this work for this amount of money. As soon as a potential client gives me the, "I want you to tell me how to deal with this issue," or "I want to know what's going on with my trees," I tell them, straight and to the point, "My estimates for tree work are free. If you want me to come out and diagnose any and all problems you might be having with your trees, I charge $150/tree for a written report that includes steps you can take towards remediation, and if you want a lab work-up included in my report, using my in-house lab, that will be another $100/tree. My work-ups include both macro and microscopic soil, leaf and bark studies, an NPK analysis and an ambient salinity and pH test." The drop-out rate for chain rattlers/time wasters, after my spiel, is about 90%. The sooner you work your comeback lines out for yourself, the sooner you will stop wasting your time and money on those who don't care a thing about wasting it for you.

Excellent post. your rates are high but that is better than low. :msp_thumbup:

"I don't do consultations anymore because it was more or less a waste of time and if I did get some money it wasn't much. Most of the time the trees are so stressed and have gone so far downhill there really isn't much that can be done for them to bring them back."

Ax are you sure about that?

beans, you don't need a consulting biz, you need a chiropractor. :mad2:

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Excellent post. your rates are high but that is better than low. :msp_thumbup:
(snip)

You're just kidding around here, right? I go out to a client, I spend about an hour taking samples, including those from the upper canopy, up to where I climb. I go back to the lab. I run reagent tests on the samples. I make slides and do studies at 20X, 40X, 100X, 400X. I write up a report on my findings and then discuss the same. I give detailed suggestions for remediation and treatment. At $250, for the works, including the lab and report, I'm spending about five hours on a client's work-up. If $50/hr. is a high rate, based on my degree, my years in the biz and my practical experience, what is the right hourly, as you see it? I'm not trying to start any confrontational stuff, here, seriously. I honestly want to know what you think a professional's time is worth, since I think I'm working wayyyyyyy too cheap!

 

[ATH]

You're just kidding around here, right?.......I go back to the lab. I run reagent tests on the samples. I make slides and do studies at 20X, 40X, 100X, 400X. I write up a report on my findings and then discuss the same. I give detailed suggestions for remediation and treatment. At $250, for the works, including the lab and report, I'm spending about five hours on a client's work-up. If $50/hr. is a high rate, based on my degree, my years in the biz and my practical experience, what is the right hourly, as you see it? I'm not trying to start any confrontational stuff, here, seriously. I honestly want to know what you think a professional's time is worth, since I think I'm working wayyyyyyy too cheap!

At $50 per hour, I'd agree you are working too cheap for the professional services you are offering. HOWEVER why not send the samples off? I spend $14 for a soil test that includes: pH, Organic material %, CEC, K, Mg, and Ca Saturation, and ppm for Phosphorous, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium, Copper, iron, manganese, and zinc. I can also get foliar nutrient samples for $35. On one hand it would be tempting to set up a better lab and do that myself to keep some more cash...on the other hand for the price, why would I waste my time?

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Like how, what liability's?

It may be more a matter of how you present the consultation.

Suppose you say - as suggested - that the tree is well, and it's not, then falls. Are you responsible? First, they would have to prove what you said. Secondly, it's an opinion, and often not a document.

But you could say "if this tree were mine, I'd feel completely at ease about it, based on what I see growing above ground". That is not a prescription, that's purely your opinion with no guarantee.

The consultation thing is where I'd like to go for 90% of my work ten years from now. Not just trees, but evaluation and visually assessing the landscape, drainage, lawn and more.

Excluding arborist reports for like development and municipal tree removal stuff. I'd mainly like to look at landscapes and expose the good and the bad for property owners so they know where they stand and what is feasible and not feasible for care and remedies.

Honestly, 90% if not more, landscapers and landscape designers should be hiring a consultant to look at properties they are working on or plan to improve. There are scores of them who lack the broad experience or years to really pull all the factors in for a comprehensive approach.

 

[sgreanbeans]

beans, you don't need a consulting biz, you need a chiropractor.

LOL. Got one! Hes a brute too. What I need is a new disc between C6/7! They have them, titanium,plastic, poly resin, etc.
If/when I get one, I want flames and a built in GPS, that way I know my location "where is me, right here"
Seriously, the VA is after me to have the surgery, with months off after, not gonna happen. Thats why I need to go more to the paperwork, so I could have the surgery and not worry about money, damn lotto, I try twice a week!

I have to agree with Sunrise, 50 is not enough, for the real deal. I get what yuz guys are saying about the liability, all in the verbiage.

 

[treeseer]

... On one hand it would be tempting to set up a better lab and do that myself to keep some more cash...on the other hand for the price, why would I waste my time?

And the client's time interpreting all that. I'm not commenting on hourly rate but the amount of detail needed for the assignment. My reports tend to cut to the chase because most of my clients want an action plan. that's why your rates seem high; they include stuff that does not seem relevant to me. BUT you know what you sell and how you present and apply that soil info that you know better than I, so no criticism implied.

beans if you need a neuropsychological workup to justify the operation, cmon down to nc and my VA wife will hook you up! My problem disc is C 5-6 but no surgeries needed, yet. Good luck!

Good post by Mario. Clients first need overall understanding of their land before "How can you fix my tree?" can be answered.

 

[PinnaclePete]

Because of the competition around here, I get more tree jobs from consulting than from bidding. Talk to the owner about their trees (original request), end up discussing (educating them) their landscape/property and end up getting the tree work + a consultation fee. Typical ending question from owner..."Can you do the work". Give them a price, no competitive bids, and get the jobs I want to do for the price I want to do it for. Anything out of my scope (big removals), I provide 3 references of good local tree companies.

As for price $xx for basic HO consult, $XX for corporate/commercial properties, $XX x 2 for simple reports + estimated expenses + travel, $ XX x 3/hr for probable legal cases, $ XXX/day for training/safety compliance.

E&O (Errors and Omission) insurance on top of GL ($2mm each) should cover you. Never had to use insurance in nearly 20 years.

Stay objective, always be truthful, don't take sides, look at and consider everything, be conservative, get all the facts possible, don't jump to conclusions, get it in writing - put it in writing.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

At $50 per hour, I'd agree you are working too cheap for the professional services you are offering. HOWEVER why not send the samples off? I spend $14 for a soil test that includes: pH, Organic material %, CEC, K, Mg, and Ca Saturation, and ppm for Phosphorous, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium, Copper, iron, manganese, and zinc. I can also get foliar nutrient samples for $35. On one hand it would be tempting to set up a better lab and do that myself to keep some more cash...on the other hand for the price, why would I waste my time?

I like doing the lab work, so I don't view it as a waste of time. As a little kid, I had a plastic microscope that was the coolest thing, to me, at the time. When my med lab scope arrived a few years back, I was that little kid, all over again. The cost of the scope, $650. The experience of opening up the box it came in, setting it up and running my first samples, priceless!