Climber Commodities

[Nickrosis]

**My Humble Opinion**

This concept of climbers being free agents or freelance arborists is something I don't agree with. The end result of this seems to be a creation of a "climber commodity" who gets traded and valued back and forth.

Like day traders selling stock every ten minutes, the business who pick up climbers for a day to do jobs periodically are unable to establish refined communication with the people working for them. Beyond that, the crew is unable to form the communication that a team posesses.

As an example, our ultimate frisbee team lost today to a team that had obviously been playing with each for a while. They had a communication system that set up plays and directed the action while we had no such organization.

In the same way, a tree crew should bond together and form multi-faceted network that is dynamic and capable. The concept of day climbers really short circuits that and is, in my view, a dangerous path for arboriculture to follow.

Nickrosis

 

[Jumper]

Hers goes my 3 cents Canadian worth=2 cents US

Nick I agree a well established team is a more effective one....which is why sports teams and military units practice, practice, practice.

However around here, climbers are in short supply, and whoever wants to pay the highest gets the commodity. This is the reason the firsat firm I worked for shut their door. No climbers available at the $$$$ and hassle of working there. Old supply and demand curves. I can not blame climbers for jumping around a lot, theirs is a hard job, physically and mentally, and some firms here treat them like dung, and do not pay what they are worth, especially those that have spent years in College and are certified. Couple that with the fact that the work is seasonal, thus one has to maximize their $$$$$ earned and hours worked to get unemployment during the winter months. Many augment this with cash jobs.

You would not have this situation if climbers were paid closer to what other professional trades like electricians and plumbers get, and if they could be assured of a year round job which paid consistantly with benefits.

I am not a union type of a guy, but this is one trade that could use a little support IMHO.

 

[treeclimber165]

I seem to get along better with trees than people. Working for one company full time inevitably leads to personnel conflicts for me. That combined with what Mitch said, I could get about $15 per hour plus some benifits (minus taxe$) working for one of the larger firms here.

I would end up being responsible for supervising other people, fixing the equipment they screw up, keeping them from hurting/killing themselves, loading logs and dragging brush with my bad back, making dump runs in overloaded trucks, dealing with customers when they complain, etc. etc. etc.

By freelancing, I can do what I am good at without dealing with trying to run a crew. I can work 3 days a week doing what I love and make as much as a full time job doing all those things I dispise. If I could find someone willing to pay me what I am worth to CLIMB without having to run their business for them, I would jump at it.

Unfortunately, the highest paid guy on the crew usually has to supervise all the idiots they hire and take up their slack. I am not willing to do that any more.

 

[TREETX]

I agree with nick that nothing beats a well oiled machine, a team. I have been a member of a few. Baumteam Nellen in Munich. TreeTeam is their name. Gives you a feeling that an organized crew will be there.

I think the main benefits are for the company and not the customer. Communication is easy, you just yell hold that, jale, ziehen, or whatever you need. I find I just need to know each member's responsibility threshold and if I don't know them, I assume it is zero. A team looks out for eachother - high responsibility. With the low responsibility guys, you have to look out for yourself. Give me this, hold that, lower that, untie that, yes-you can untie it, pull the rope back up. I hate that. We still get the job done though. I think that is more a factor of being a seasoned tree worker than being a team.

I think the future will continue to produce more freelance climbers for one reason. That reason is how many climbers get paid $50K a year?? I know only one. Free lance, you can pull that down or at least 30K and work part time.

I know that when I work contract, or when I hire "guns" we/they work as if they are getting $200-$400 a day and not $15/hr. Productivity is different.

Turn over is high in this industry unless pay is high. I know one guy here who pays his crew leader/climber $50K!! He has worked there 12+years. I said how I thought that was high and he said "all I have to do is sell and take care of business - I give ?BOB? a work order and it is taken care of - no operations problems, no employee probs, and never a complaint from a customer." That is a hell of a lot of money but the guy has a high responsiblity threshold. The owner is free of so much responsibility plus free of dealing with turn over.

It is a factor of market forces rather than a decision consciously made by the climber.

I'm not bashing what you said nick. Having grown up in a tree business, you must know a lot more about the mgmt side of tree care. I am just learning as I go and finding the gaps between academia and reality.

 

[TREETX]

I also wanted to say AMEN to what 165 said.

I worked as a crew leader for a big company. I thought I would be climbing and promoting excellence in tree care. Instead, I was making sure that the equipment was in the truck, wasn't being taken home, that cones were being put out, running the to the dump, making sure that people had their hard hats, that they had their tacos on the truck, and that everyone was sober or minimally hungover.

Now I get to focus on tree care.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Climber commodities!!!

Look at it from the other end. Tree companies are willing to work with freelancers. There are no health benefits and etc. to cover. Personally if I was good enough to persue climbing fulltime freelancing is the way I would want to go. Rich.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm not ever going to get rich doing this, but I enjoy what I do. Currently it is a lifestyle decision for me. I can set my own schedule, take a trip when I want to.

I don't mind dealing with clients, but am rather short with subordinate stupidity.

An employee is a comodity no matter what. Your Dad values the skillsets his team has, so he pays above industry average. He has an amazingly high level of tenure in his crews.

Not everyone can do this, not everyone wants to. Most of my clients are micro companies with maybe 2 fulltime employees. The biggest company I've worked with was down in KC after the ice storms, He has 2, 3 man crews with one bucket.

The way I see my value to the industry is providing a my skills and knowledge to small companies and startups when they have a large project, or when the want to add an employee, but are searching for the "right one".

As long as this is a thread touching on gainful employment an article in todays paper quoted a study that shows that a person needs to make around $13/hr to be able to afford a basic 2 bedroom apartment.