Costs of Selective harvesting and Clear cutting

[donout]

Hi, im just dropping by for a school debate and I just need some info on the cost deference of selective and clear cutting. So, what would be the difference of costs to clear cut and entire 5 acre of forests for its pine compared to selectively cutting 5 acres of forest for its pine. For selectively cutting i mean having a boundary and cutting down all the pine inside of it. I know this is a extremly bland question but im only looking for estimates. Any ones idea is welcome, the more the better.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

 

[bore_pig]

So you want to use second-hand info off an internet forum (a good one, i'll give you that!) as fact in a debate? Let me tell you a problem with america kid. The problem is exactly what you are doing. Reading about something new to you on the internet, then passing off what you read as fact. One question for you, why are you taking the easy way out? You are basically asking us to do the work for you.

 

[madhatte]

Best answer I can offer: it depends.

 

[slowp]

You'll have to convert U.S dollars into Canadian dollars. What is the exchange rate right now? I still have a loonie and a $2.00 bill.

 

[lfnh]

Hi, im just dropping by for a school debate and I just need some info on the cost deference of selective and clear cutting. So, what would be the difference of costs to clear cut and entire 5 acre of forests for its pine compared to selectively cutting 5 acres of forest for its pine. For selectively cutting i mean having a boundary and cutting down all the pine inside of it. I know this is a extremly bland question but im only looking for estimates. Any ones idea is welcome, the more the better.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

if you define "Selective Cutting" as you have above,
then what is your definition of "Clear Cutting" ?

inquiring minds want to know.

 

[lmbrman]

:msp_thumbdn:

 

[donout]

So you want to use second-hand info off an internet forum (a good one, i'll give you that!) as fact in a debate? Let me tell you a problem with america kid. The problem is exactly what you are doing. Reading about something new to you on the internet, then passing off what you read as fact. One question for you, why are you taking the easy way out? You are basically asking us to do the work for you.

This is the problem with america? A kid working on a school project asking the only people with experience he has contact with for an estimate? Its an estimate, thats what im looking for. Your going to far to assume ill use it as a cold hard fact. I wont, ill pass it out as an estimated cost. How did you come to the reasoning that i would instantly belive these to accurate figures with the little information i gave in my question? This also isnt the easy way out. This was almost a last resort. Ive been trying to research the cost dereference in clear cutting and selective harvesting for a couple days. I couldn't find any costs. So i found this site. And from a quick look it had some people experienced with logging. So i figured hell, these people will have a better idea then some people on yahoo answers. Thats why i posted here. Also, your doing almost no work at all. How can this be viewed as asking you to do all of the work? This part of the debate is in the rebutal. If you know what that is then you'll understand that this information will only last 10 seconds. So, before you start to assume that im some idiot comming to a random internet forum asking a bunch of random people to do my work then think again. As i mentioned I have only come here to ask of this because time is running out and i need as much information as possible.

As for anyone else going to answer im sorry that my question is so poorly worded and broad.

 

[donout]

if you define "Selective Cutting" as you have above,
then what is your definition of "Clear Cutting" ?

inquiring minds want to know.

I mean the average clear cut. Going in and cutting down every tree in the area. Including ones that are unwanted (those are usually sold to a pulp mill)

 

[lmbrman]

As for anyone else going to answer im sorry that my question is so poorly worded and broad.

There is no way I can answer that question for the very reason you state- poorly worded and broad. Site index, species, soils, COUNTRY I could go on -

Why is time running out??

I never learned how to negative rep yet -

 

[donout]

There is no way I can answer that question for the very reason you state- poorly worded and broad. Site index, species, soils, COUNTRY I could go on -

Why is time running out??

I never learned how to negative rep yet -

I guess this a lost cause...
Im running out of time because it turns out my debate partner can not only not read english, but cant right her own agruments. Also i found this out yesterday and the debate is tomorrow. Anyway i guess thanks to any one who bothered to answer. I understand i worded the question in the worst way possible. anyway DONOUT OUT

 

[lmbrman]

I mean the average clear cut. Going in and cutting down every tree in the area. Including ones that are unwanted (those are usually sold to a pulp mill)

the trees around here going to a pulp mill are wanted and paid for quite well

some contracts here call for removal of UNMERCHANTABLE product if that is what you mean- those trees stay on the ground

 

[RandyMac]

There are a thousand variables, we need fairly exact perimeters.

 

[Slamm]

Well on the same road as we are working there is a clear cut going on with a lot of pine getting clear cut. That said, I have been told they have 1 million dollars worth of equipment there. The last clear cut job that I saw around here was about the same deal a million dollars worth of equipment.

That said, myself and several other select cut loggers, have at or less than $100,000 worth of equipment, and half the size of crews.


Just my simple observation.

Sam

 

[bitzer]

I think we should arrange a "log off" where this can be tested with the finest equipment and somehow be paid for by the government. Say maybe with a research grant. Beer and snoose will be provided at lunchtime and any other break times as well as the end of the day. We will need to document this all for science.

 

[slowp]

We must do it on all types of terrain.

What spacing for the "selective" cut shall we use? Or shall we go by basal area only?

I hear that Orygun loggers don't get paid as much as Warshington loggers. Shall we factor that in?

What kind of weather? Will the trucks have to chain up? Will a pushme pullme be needed?

See, you just can't ask for costs of harvest in a general way.

OP, why don't you phone a mill or logging outfit in your area?

 

[redprospector]

We must do it on all types of terrain.

What spacing for the "selective" cut shall we use? Or shall we go by basal area only?

I hear that Orygun loggers don't get paid as much as Warshington loggers. Shall we factor that in?

What kind of weather? Will the trucks have to chain up? Will a pushme pullme be needed?

See, you just can't ask for costs of harvest in a general way.

OP, why don't you phone a mill or logging outfit in your area?

No! Please, don't use basal area!
I hate that. I can get my prism out and check an area before I call for an inspection, and when they get there my basal area is too high (sometimes low, but not often). I can contest it, and when the next forester gets there they get a different number. The only way basal area works is if everyone stands in the exact same spot, has the same squint in there eye, and holds their mouths just right.

Andy

 

[wyk]

Hi, im just dropping by for a school debate and I just need some info on the cost deference of selective and clear cutting. So, what would be the difference of costs to clear cut and entire 5 acre of forests for its pine compared to selectively cutting 5 acres of forest for its pine. For selectively cutting i mean having a boundary and cutting down all the pine inside of it. I know this is a extremly bland question but im only looking for estimates. Any ones idea is welcome, the more the better.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

So, are you trying to ask the difference between:

Selective harvesting or
Selection harvesting or
Thinning or
Patch Clearing or
Reserve clearing or
Maybe pick up a forestry book and spend some time with someone with a degree in forestry to help you understand what question you need to ask?
Or just leave this forum and then go and debate a point you, and likely the other party, knows little to nothing about purely as an exercise?

 

[madhatte]

What spacing for the "selective" cut shall we use? Or shall we go by basal area only?

What about group selection & retention for an average basal area over a large area? Prisms don't help there; you have to be able to visualize the residual stand while marking. Oh, and considering skid trails and landings on the fly, as well as logical lays for individual trees. Brings the cost of the harvest down to have the layout done with a bit of forethought.

 

[coastalfaller]

Generally speaking, from a BC perspective and having done both. Clear cutting costs less and is a far safer and more productive method of logging, especially in the falling phase. If you have more pointed questions....fire away.

 

[Humptulips]

You guys are being downright mean to the poor kid. You don't know the answer so you give him a bunch of lingo he probably doesn't savy anway.
I understand you don't have a good idea what the 5 acres loooks like but give the kid a break and throw out an average range. It's just for arguments sake. He's not mortgaging the family farm to go into business.

I'll throw something out to him. I haven't a clue on price but on a cable logging show you're probably going to get about three to four times the production clearcutting that you will with a thin.
In other words if you could get 12 loads a day clearcutting expect 3 maybe 4 thinning.

Not a clue on ground based and of course moving into and out of that mythical 5 acres would kill the profit but I'd argue that would come close to being true.