Cracks

[Guy Meilleur]

i dont know everything about trees and do not claim too far from it..but i have a question i hope you could answer for me ,if a red oak for example had a large split down the main trunk say 1/4 of an inch wide and several feet in length going three inches into heartwood do you think this would eventualy heal up taking into consideration the tree looks completely healthy apart from the crack..

Reply: Heal up? Trees seal, not heal. The tree will grow new tissue around the crack to replace the lost strength. If the crack is due to trunk twisting, crown reduction may prevent more twisting and cracking. Too much foliage off can retard sealing due to lost food-making.

Cracks can also be due to lightning or physical injury--much less reason to prune in those cases. The Body Language of Trees and Hazard Evaluation books cna help you tell the difference. One universally proper response is to improve the soil around the roots on that side of the tree so the tree has more resources to repair the crack.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

THANKS GUY like ive already said too mike mass..i always think of codit for wounds not cracks..is there a limit to crack width and depth that will not seal up?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The wound closure will depend on the movement of the tree and the ability of the meristem to join up once the woundwood meets.

The crack will allways be there and ahs a very good chance of decaying (especially in redoak) the column inside of the "wall 4" boundry.

I do agree that Matthecks bood is very usefull in understanding these events.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I got the same question. Here was my response:

Tree's don't heal. They cover up and re-enforce themselves. The crack will always be under there. The new wood that grows around a wound will be different, it will be stronger, which helps to correct the problem. That's natures way.
As for your Oak, each case is different. If both halves are alive, you should be able to re-enforce it enough to make it work. The first thing to consider is hazard. How hazardous a tree is is calculated like this: Hazard= Defect X Target
So a cracked tree over a swingset is much more hazardous than a cracked tree in the forest.
If the tree doesn't have much chance of hitting someone or something, I will tend to try to save it.
We haven't had a good thread on cabling and bolting for a while, you could start one and ask for pictures.

 

[dbeck]

victims?

Trees often seem to be vivtims of their own growth patterns w/o proper training when young. I agre, the crack will always be there, but through dissecting all kinds of removal trees(when we have time), you can see where trees have outgrown earlier defects.
As MM said, check for targets. If there is one, I would say cable or cable and bolt it as long as it isn't too much of a threat. Can you get the cable at the proper height? Too low or too high can have bad consequences.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: victims?

Originally posted by dbeck
you can :Eye: see :Eye: where trees have outgrown earlier defects.

Someone's got their eyes open! Signs in many trees show that the disease often loses when the tree associate team is strong. I see a lot during wood-splitting season ; glad that's over.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
If the crack is due to trunk twisting, crown reduction may prevent more twisting and cracking.

Is there any tree ailment that cannot be cured with a good old fashioned crown reduction?

Homeowner: "My tree's hollow."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "My tree is cracked."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "My car won't start."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "Are you even listening to me?"
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "Stop saying that!"
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Man in white suit: "OK Guy, let's get in the back of the van."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."

 

[murphy4trees]

Can you get the cable at the proper height? Too low or too high can have bad consequences.

Is this right????
Somebody clue me in...
I always thought cables needed to go in at "AT LEAST" 2/3 the height... Is putting a higher cable in a problem...

From a support perspective, the higher the better.... And of course the tree will keep growing..

Tell me something...

 

[Menchhofer]

Re: Re: Cracks

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Is there any tree ailment that cannot be cured with a good old fashioned crown reduction?

Homeowner: "My tree's hollow."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "My tree is cracked."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "My car won't start."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "Are you even listening to me?"
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Homeowner: "Stop saying that!"
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."
Man in white suit: "OK Guy, let's get in the back of the van."
Guy: "Let's reduce the crown."

 

[OutOnaLimb]

This is a great thread for myself to get some info on as well. In a thread that I posted yesterday I was talking about replacing an old static cable with a dynamic system. I am really new to the whole cabling field but definately want to learn more. As for the crown reduction I am a firm believer in that after a few years of seeing what hurricanes, ice storms, and blizzards can to to trees. I have never heard of Dr. Clause untill I saw an ad in this months TCI. He is offering a seminar here in Ft Collins Colo in June and I have already signed up for this one. Is he a less publicized version of Dr. Shigo?

Kenn:Monkey:

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Boy that's funny; what's sad is that this is Reduction Redux #8 and you still don't get it:

"Consider canopy reduction when the tree...has substantial decay (or cracks--ed.) and is in risk of failure...as little as 3-6 ft. reduction can add a great amount of stability...It often requires substantial talent..." Gilman, Illustrated Pruning.

Mike I know you have the talent, just practice a little and then you can try it. Kind of like me and a BS. Don't give up on the idea just because it seems hard at first.

'Hazard Abatement--(2nd option)--reduce end weight" Matheny and Clark, Guide to Hazard Eval.

There's stuff in Body Language about this too, but you get the idea. What would you do with a cracked tree that's a better idea than these guys'?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur


Boy that's funny; what's sad is that this is Reduction Redux #8 and you still don't get it:

What's sad is that this is Reduction Redux #8 and you still don't get it.

 

[dbeck]

Originally posted by murphy4trees
Is this right????
Somebody clue me in...
I always thought cables needed to go in at "AT LEAST" 2/3 the height... Is putting a higher cable in a problem...

From a support perspective, the higher the better.... And of course the tree will keep growing..

Tell me something...

I learned 2/3 as the target height. Supposedly at this height the cable will not be as intrusive to the trees already established support(if that makes sense). If you put it too low, the trunkwood moves less and lead to crown failures due to excessive and unnatural movements of the crown. On the other hand, putting the cables too high can lead to crown failure also. But this time it is because the crown can't move enough. If a heavy wind gust came along and the crown was not a 'flexible' as it once was, it could fail.
I guess you want to place a cable at a height that is in concert w/ trees natural movements. 2/3 seems to be right most of the time.
Thats the way I learned it in college and I beleive that is what ISA suggests also. What else do you guys have to add?

 

[Gypo Logger]

When a tree has a long crack down the trunk to the stump, I just think of it as two trees sorta welded together, supporting each other in a fashion. Caulking cracks serves no purpose other than maybe keeping rodents out for awhile. When trees like this are felled, they should be treated as two seperate stems unless they are tied together in the crown by limbs.
Although more subject to weather in an open situation, these " Simamese Twins", last a long time if otherwise healthy.
Double stem trees are responsible for the creeking sounds we hear in the wind.
John

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

we aint talking about co-dominant stems GYPO were refering to actual splitts /cracks

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA
we aint talking about co-dominant stems GYPO were refering to actual splitts /cracks

I think Gypo heard right. He was talking about a trunk so cracked the 2 halves stared moving independently. I've seen that too, when they're held together only by the branches' embrace with the stems and each other.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

That ain't love Guy, that's ho;ding on for Dear Life!

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Sounds like Tough Love to me.:angel: