Crane on pavers

[Toddppm]

Looked at a job to take down some large Poplars where all the wood has to go. Would be a whole lot faster and easier with a big crane but the whole driveway is pavers.
Anybody ever done it? Not sure I would trust the pavers to hold up if the base isn't good.

 

[pdqdl]

You are wise to consider the problems of sinking into the pavers. Laid properly, they will outlast any other pavement. Done poorly "on the cheap", they will sink like the deep sand they were laid in.

I would discuss the risk with the customer, and price the job with crane in the driveway, and a separate price for doing it without the crane.

If they say to use the crane, get it in writing that you are not responsible for pavers that sink.

 

[Rookie1]

I would lay down some plywood or planks to drive crane on. Im sure crane company will lay out pads for outriggers that are on drive. If homeowner knows company that installed call them and see what they say about weight.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Plywood! Lots and lots of plywood! Plywood pyramids under the outrigger pads. Everything will be alright!

 

[tree md]

Forgive my ignorance but what is pavers?

 

[beowulf343]

Looked at a job to take down some large Poplars where all the wood has to go. Would be a whole lot faster and easier with a big crane but the whole driveway is pavers.
Anybody ever done it? Not sure I would trust the pavers to hold up if the base isn't good.

How big is big, and how many axles is it on? I had a 75 ton with a full cw load on pavers last week with no problem. In fact, we have less qualms about running on pavers than we do regular asphalt.
Couple things we look for: There are cheap pavers and expensive pavers-the cheap will break.
You can tell alot just by looking at the driveway-if pavers have lifted during frost or you see where repairs have been made, stay off it. Also stay off newly installed paver driveways too.
Stay off the edges, it's where the driveways are weakest.
Try to do straight on and straight off if possible-we've lifted pavers with our tandem steering axles.
We don't go on paver driveways right after a hard rain or after several days of a soaking rain.
Paver driveways are almost indestructible once the ground freezes.
Bring lots of dunnage-our riggers are wide enough we can usually pick our rubber off the driveway, then load the cw and start picking with no weight on the driveway at all, other than our front spike.
Pavers are easier to replace than most other types of driveways that can be messed up.

Plywood! Lots and lots of plywood! Plywood pyramids under the outrigger pads. Everything will be alright!

Don't do plywood under the riggers.

 

[Rookie1]

Forgive my ignorance but what is pavers?

Bricks that are designed to be put on the ground.

 

[JCONN]

I agree with pdqdl on discussing the options with the home owner. If you don't know much about pavers find someone that does and have them take a look at it, just because it looks nice or its a fancy house doesnt mean its installed correctly. I know around here the price for installing pavers has been going for cheaper and cheaper, the problem most installers are trying to make the same money so they are cutting back on base material big no no.

 

[tree md]

Bricks that are designed to be put on the ground.

OK, kind of what I thought. Hadn't seen a drive like that in years.

The only ones I have seen like that are the old single lane drives at the older homes... I would think if that's the case they would have had years to settle and the outriggers would go out past the drive to the yard anyway, no?

Anyway, best advice is to talk it over with HO. Always best to cover your bases on deals like that.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Like below.

BTW - if most of the crane weight will be on outriggers, if pavers sink in a small a area, but don't crack, it would only take a few hours to raise and reset the area.

If fact, if I had a well-built paver driveway, and you were going to bring a crane in, I'd prefer to remove the pavers under the outriggers, lay plywood in the cavities, then reset the pavers there.

Part of it may depend on if replacements can be found for cracked blocks, or not.

 

[treeclimber101]

Crane on pavers bad real bad , the base has to be right, the paver breaking is the least of your worries the problem is both the outrigger and the front wheels settling while picking over the front or to the side , the in and out should be fine , but crib the pads real wide and walk on mats .. And for god sakes watch the brake checks stopping to sudden can wave them forward aswell

 

[beowulf343]

If fact, if I had a well-built paver driveway, and you were going to bring a crane in, I'd prefer to remove the pavers under the outriggers, lay plywood in the cavities, then reset the pavers there.

You've actually got it backwards-the problem is going to come when you drive the crane onto the driveway since that is the point in time that the most weight is spread over the smallest surface area. Once you start putting the riggers down, there are formulas that can be used to figure out how many square inches of dunnage need to be under every rigger based on soil composition. For example, in a worst case scenario paver driveway, i can figure that my crane is going to need about 194 square inches of dunnage under every rigger. Now that is alot, yes, and more than i've ever put down, but i'm talking about something like bricks laid on dried mud. Using a formula and common sense, compression damage caused by riggers can be almost eliminated. The damage will come from the initial drive on.

Crane on pavers bad real bad , the base has to be right, the paver breaking is the least of your worries the problem is both the outrigger and the front wheels settling while picking over the front or to the side , the in and out should be fine , but crib the pads real wide and walk on mats .. And for god sakes watch the brake checks stopping to sudden can wave them forward aswell

Use proper cribbing techniques and worries about settling can be eliminated. Not every one pulls up in a 20 ton crane, throws down the riggers on a piece of plywood and goes to town, while rocking on the riggers. My crane's chart might as well be thrown out the window if it's more than .6 degrees off level so we make as positively sure as possible that no sinking can occur. Not to mention, use the creeper gear in a situation like this, eliminates hard stops.

(Going to rant a bit now.) What i'm loving about this thread is all the advice from guys who've never put a crane on pavers or even know what a paver driveway is. Listen todd, we do alot a high end work which seems to mean a lot of paver driveways. I'm willing to bet over the last seven years we've worked on over 500 paver driveways with cranes over 50 tons. Only five got tore up and every one of them was from the initial drive on. Use your head, if your comfortable, do it, if not don't. In my personal experience, asphalt drieways give me more headaches-pavers are meant to flex a bit and are much more forgiving and there are a lot more crappy asphalt driveways than paver ones. If you do it, there are ways and means of minimizing your footprint. Heck, on old ones that have two imprinted wheel grooves down the driveway from usage, i've run one side of the crane down the middle and the other side off the driveway all together on planking.
Anyway, i'm going to leave this thread alone before someone comes up with more brilliant ideas.
Good luck, do it smart.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

We don't go on paver driveways right after a hard rain or after several days of a soaking rain.

Yeah, and that would be... uh, NOW, in our area. We got 3-5 inches around here, and I think Todd got more over on his side of the Blue Ridge.

 

[pdqdl]

How big is big, and how many axles is it on? I had a 75 ton with a full cw load on pavers last week with no problem. In fact, we have less qualms about running on pavers than we do regular asphalt.
Couple things we look for: There are cheap pavers and expensive pavers-the cheap will break.
You can tell alot just by looking at the driveway-if pavers have lifted during frost or you see where repairs have been made, stay off it. Also stay off newly installed paver driveways too.
Stay off the edges, it's where the driveways are weakest.
Try to do straight on and straight off if possible-we've lifted pavers with our tandem steering axles.
We don't go on paver driveways right after a hard rain or after several days of a soaking rain.
Paver driveways are almost indestructible once the ground freezes.
Bring lots of dunnage-our riggers are wide enough we can usually pick our rubber off the driveway, then load the cw and start picking with no weight on the driveway at all, other than our front spike.
Pavers are easier to replace than most other types of driveways that can be messed up.




Don't do plywood under the riggers.

:agree2:

That there is some really good advice from a guy that sounds like he knows! You clearly have more experience with cranes & pavers than I do.

Shucks; I just know how to lay them properly. I haven't ever had a crane with counterweights to test pavement with.

 

[Rftreeman]

Don't do plywood under the riggers.

I'm just curious why you say "don't" use plywood under the riggers...

 

[Blakesmaster]

I'm just curious why you say "don't" use plywood under the riggers...

Me too. Was it the "pyramid" thought that turned you off? A sheet or two under the cribbing can't be a bad thing, can it?

 

[ATH]

No advice about a crane on paver to offer...but if you need to replace some, I know for a fact that an AirKnife is an excellent way to get them loose. You can just loosen the few you want and very easy to do.

 

[beowulf343]

I'm just curious why you say "don't" use plywood under the riggers...

It's a personal choice due to experience. (Disclaimer-none of the following examples are bragging, all of them were poor planning, poor material, poor ground, or poor choices.) About five years ago, i actually watched a 150 ton Grove crush 6" of plywood right in front of me-poor placement of the plywood. A few months later saw a 50 ton crush 2" of plywood-poor pick choice. Last year out west, saw an 85 ton crush 4" of plywood-plywood was in rough shape but bad pick too. Four years ago, i personally crushed 3.25" of plywood with a little 60 ton due to poor ground-which coincidentally was the last day i ever used plywood under riggers. Had my brother saw out a bunch of 5" locust beams-no problems since.
Plywood gets beat up, looses it's strength and flexibility over time, and most people don't realize it. Plus most plywood you buy at places like home depot is honestly crap. I've used some professionally built laminated plywood pads that i liked, but they will have about three times the ply of the same amount of regular plywood.
Here's what i think about-my crane gets set up for about 570 lbs of pressure exerted on each square inch on pad. Spread that out over a pad the size of a serving tray, then stick that in the middle of a couple pieces of plywood. Plywood does fold. (This is a worst case scenario, but that's what i plan for when setting up-plywood doesn't seem to hold up good in worst case.)
Not to mention, you start stacking plywood into "pyramids" and you've got slip potential. We get a lot of snow and ice and while that much force will hold stuff together, i have seen shifting in piles of plywood. And it's probably me, but my crane seems to "bounce" on plywood.

Me too. Was it the "pyramid" thought that turned you off? A sheet or two under the cribbing can't be a bad thing, can it?

It was actually.
No, our 115 ton guy uses plywood and steel sheets but he does a lot of picking in wide open spaces from a bucket where there is tons of room for cribbing. I'm often running at half extension on my riggers due to tight places or i'm cribbing over curbs and the beams give me better options than a piece of plywood.

 

[Rookie1]

I agree with you on the plywood under the outriggers beowulf. I was saying to use it to drive the truck on over the pavers. I worked for a crane rental company years ago and they used real wood for cribbing no plywood.

 

[meatwagon45]

Plywood is not going to provide as much weight distribution as you are going to need. I used 18" LVL pieces I got from new home construction. They will not bend and will spread the weight over more pavers compared to plywood. Plywood will only put pressure where the outrigger pad sits. A thicker, more solid object, such as steel or an LVL, will put pressure on a wider area.

Putting plywood on the driveway just to drive on is a waste of time. If the driveway was properly installed then there should be no issue. Getting a waiver signed is a good idea for cranes, chippers, and dump trucks (mason dumps included). As far as laying plywood to drive on, I think you would be wasting time and money. The plywood is not going to spread enough weight to make a difference. And the amount of time to move that much plywood would make alot of work.