Crane removal hitch setup?

[rymancm]

I do a ton of crane removals and constantly wear out my eye-and-eye slings. I use a VT with Sterling cord which is great, but thousands of feet of descending per day, sometimes at high speed, really pushes the limit of what rope on rope can safely handle. Does anyone use a Spiderjack/Unicender/ZigZag (yeah, I know they have been recalled) for this? I like the control of the VT but I feel a mechanical hitch would let me descend faster without heat issues. Keep in mind I am not climbing, just descending since the crane lifts me into the tree. Also, I NEED to be able to release and descend, in control, with one hand. I tried the Spiderjack once and felt that I was either stopped or in freefall. There was no feathering and I didn't feel safe using it without my other hand on the rope. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

If you climb on 7/16" rope you could use a gri gri. If you climb on 1/2" you could use a petzl id. Thwy both work really nice. Or you could use a figure 8.

No matter what you are decending on, its gonna get hot. Not the best thing for your rope.

 

[imagineero]

You've not got a lot of options. If you're serious about *never* needing to ascend, then maybe look at a petzl I'D. I do crane jobs maybe only half dozen times a year or so, but I still find that I like to be able to ascend. I ride the hook into the tree, and then might ride the hook out to subsequent picks if the picks are big and awkward to get to with no high point, but often will do some ascending. You can't descend with one hand withthe I'D. It locks off easily (important!). There are other purpose made devices for descending which you can descend on with one hand (rack for example) but have no inbuilt lock off. Stay away from figure 8's and all variants.

The spyderjack is more of an ascender than descender, especially if we're talking fully loaded free hanging descent. in my opinion you're better off with what you've got. Try different hitch cords, and maybe consider switching to a closed prussik system to save money, or just tying off your cord with the VT instead of getting I2I's, you'd save a bunch of money right there and could buy reels of whatever cord you favour. The I2I is nice if you're constantly putting it on/off the line, but tied eyes are kind of nicer in some ways too except for clutter. You can tie them a lot shorter. I'm favouring 8mm beeline for myself.

Shaun

 

[rymancm]

You've not got a lot of options. If you're serious about *never* needing to ascend, then maybe look at a petzl I'D. I do crane jobs maybe only half dozen times a year or so, but I still find that I like to be able to ascend. I ride the hook into the tree, and then might ride the hook out to subsequent picks if the picks are big and awkward to get to with no high point, but often will do some ascending. You can't descend with one hand withthe I'D. It locks off easily (important!). There are other purpose made devices for descending which you can descend on with one hand (rack for example) but have no inbuilt lock off. Stay away from figure 8's and all variants.

The spyderjack is more of an ascender than descender, especially if we're talking fully loaded free hanging descent. in my opinion you're better off with what you've got. Try different hitch cords, and maybe consider switching to a closed prussik system to save money, or just tying off your cord with the VT instead of getting I2I's, you'd save a bunch of money right there and could buy reels of whatever cord you favour. The I2I is nice if you're constantly putting it on/off the line, but tied eyes are kind of nicer in some ways too except for clutter. You can tie them a lot shorter. I'm favouring 8mm beeline for myself.

Shaun

Thanks for the advice. You are right about the need to ascend at least a little while doing crane work. Can you at least pull slack through with the I'D? I've explored different options like the I'D and Spiderjack in the past and always ended up back with the VT. I've tried about all the different cords out there and ended up with the Sterling. Just works best for me. A couple times I've taken my I2I off at the end of the day and found I've worn right down to the core and that scares me. Obviously I need to retire them sooner.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Thanks for the advice. You are right about the need to ascend at least a little while doing crane work. Can you at least pull slack through with the I'D? I've explored different options like the I'D and Spiderjack in the past and always ended up back with the VT. I've tried about all the different cords out there and ended up with the Sterling. Just works best for me. A couple times I've taken my I2I off at the end of the day and found I've worn right down to the core and that scares me. Obviously I need to retire them sooner.

You can pull slack with a id but its a bugger unless you put a pully above the id

 

[imagineero]

Thanks for the advice. You are right about the need to ascend at least a little while doing crane work. Can you at least pull slack through with the I'D?

yeah, I know where you're going with that. Like, you rope down, set chains, rope down to the cut off and set your flipline and gaff in, then you want your rope as a second attachment point. Short answer is no, not really. You can, but it's a major pain. There is still no all round device out there yet (even if you want to spend $500) that both ascends and descends as well as hitch cord. There are many excellent descenders available, but none of them can take up slack worth a damn.

Your best bet if you want to stick with the VT, is to go from spliced I2I's to tied. Will save you a bunch of $$$ if you buy a reel at a time, and you won't feel so bad about changing out earlier. Another alternative worth considering is going to a closed prussik and maybe using a klemheist. It wears nicely, and can easily be controlled one handed on descent. You can tie a bunch of them easy, and because it's a loop you can use a lot more of the surface area of the cord by tying it in a different position each time. It's not as nice as the VT on ascent, and not as silk smooth on descent but still pretty close. You'll be saving $$$.

Shaun

 

[chief116]

I've been running cranes or on a crane crew or climbing from cranes for the last 5 years.

The BEST I have ever seen from a mechanical hitch was the Lineboss. my old climber bought it at a tcia show, I believe it was Baltimore, 4-5 years ago and has had to replace the clutches twice. He climbed on tachyon.

Gri-gris and ids don't last long in my experience. Unicenders are better and would by my personal second choice, nut I've never seen a spyderjack in use.

Long descents burn out everything. I've seen beeline, armor-prus, ocean and ice prussiks used regularly. Beeline is, again in my own opinion, the best for daily crane use. Its strong and cheap, and 20 feet will last about 6 months of daily use.

 

[TreeAce]

I do a limited number of crane jobs but do have enough under my belt to chime in I think. IMO your best bet is buying cord in bulk and tying your own I2I as imagineero mentioned. For the short time I had a zigzag I personally thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. But obv I didnt have it long enough to see how well it help up to so much descending like in crane work. I doubt any mechanical device will ever give the smooth and controlled descent that a good hitch will. I am a fan of HRC with a michocaen (spelling?)

 

[Geoff Manning]

I have had the same issues on the same cordage. My solution was to run the tail of my rope through a figure 8 on my saddle before I start my descent. It's a little tricky getting the setup but if you try it out at home you should find something that works with your gear. It works well and doesn't put any friction on your hitch but allows you with the backup of your familiar system.

 

[pdqdl]

If you want to save your I2I, why not use a friction device of some sort as a descender when you are planning on coming down hot. I generally climb with a rescue-8 and a whole bunch of loopies & carabiners for speedlines, re-directs, etc. I don't generally use the 8 for descending, I just keep it with me in case I need a friction control device up in the tree and as an emergency backup should my prussic become damaged.

With all that hardware around, it is a piece of cake to quickly attach the rescue-8 to my rig as a friction device above my VT-tied I2I. Of course, this can only be done when you have no load on your climbing line. At that point, whether climbing SRT or DdRT, the figure-8 is the primary friction device and your undisturbed VT just adds security and control to the controlled end of the climbing line.

Heat and wear on the I2I would be almost eliminated, and I don't think any other descender will absorb as much heat as a big rescue-8. Even if you picked a very modestly sized descender of some sort, it would spread out the heat load between more contact points and your I2I would be preserved.

This, of course, strongly resembles the setup for the rope wrench. Have you considered trying that out? Unlike my rescue-8, the rope wrench is practical for use in ascent, also.

 

[MarquisTree]

I do a ton of crane removals and constantly wear out my eye-and-eye slings. I use a VT with Sterling cord which is great, but thousands of feet of descending per day, sometimes at high speed, really pushes the limit of what rope on rope can safely handle. Does anyone use a Spiderjack/Unicender/ZigZag (yeah, I know they have been recalled) for this? I like the control of the VT but I feel a mechanical hitch would let me descend faster without heat issues. Keep in mind I am not climbing, just descending since the crane lifts me into the tree. Also, I NEED to be able to release and descend, in control, with one hand. I tried the Spiderjack once and felt that I was either stopped or in freefall. There was no feathering and I didn't feel safe using it without my other hand on the rope. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Best we have found is bulk beeline, splices are a waste of money. Keeps the price of your hitch down so you don't think twice tossing it when it starts to show wear. We have tried a bunch of the mechanical hitches, never found one we really liked. I wouldnt let my guys use the zig zag off the crane, way too flimsy of a design for me to feel comfortable with it handling the duty cycles of production crane work.

 

[deevo]

Best we have found is bulk beeline, splices are a waste of money. Keeps the price of your hitch down so you don't think twice tossing it when it starts to show wear. We have tried a bunch of the mechanical hitches, never found one we really liked. I wouldnt let my guys use the zig zag off the crane, way too flimsy of a design for me to feel comfortable with it handling the duty cycles of production crane work.

Yep I agree with you also, I have been doing more and more crane work and I wouldn't feel comfortable with any mechanical gizmos! I know my hitches and bee lines cheap to replace and you know when it's to be replaced ( well you should!)

 

[deevo]

Also better control using traditional hitch with beeline then a mechanical device, couldn't imagine going for a fast ride if your mechanical divice ever got snagged on a branch and sent you for an unexpected fast ride and you lost control going for a big swing! I have my petzl helmet on cause my kask doesn't have a helmet cam mount yet!