Crane Rigging

[BoesTreeService]

I am curious if there is anyone can offer some advice or steer me in the right direction for rigging large limb removals with crane assistance.

Crane size, weight capacities, and rigging techniques and hardware would all be helpful. I have turned down some hefty paydays on some very large maples and oaks in the area due to lack of knowledge in this area. I just found out that the cost of a crane rental is not at all prohibitive to a fair profil on a crane removal.

I dont beleive there is much crane work being done in this area, could be a way to increase my business, and I do have access to some very good crane operators - but thier experience is NOT in tree work.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Higherup]

crane work is easy money, especially if you find a good crane service that shows up and realizes your in charge, they supply there own rigging equipment best to use the nylon straps rather than the metal, never use two chokers with out a lock buckle to prevent one from falling off, and make sure you take your time and dont take off more than the crane can handle, i can go on and on but the just of it is be careful and find a crane operator u trust and understands ur hand signal and stick with him, in cincinnati i use decker crane and there prices are $62.50 hr i think or some where around there and u just cant beat that i good idea is to hook with a tree service in indianapolis that has a crane and spend a week working with them and youll get some good experiance.

 

[maxburton]

For what it's worth, I'll post my experiences with cranes. I rent cranes for about $120 an hour, 4 hour minimum. The operators they send out with the cranes have experience with tree removal. This is important; they tell me that doing tree work with cranes is much more difficult than any other kind of crane work. I can imagine why: you don't know the weight in advance, and you need to estimate how the material will move after being cut.

This is how we proceed: Once the operator arrives, we discuss the removal and work out a rough plan. He positions the crane wherever he thinks it's best (with my approval) and sets up the outriggers and extends the crane. I hook into the ball and ride up to the place on the tree where the first sling will be placed. I sling the branch onto the ball clip with a girth hitch, then lower myself down to the site of the first cut. The crane operator tells me where he wants the cut by signaling to either keep going down or stop and "cut right there." He applies tension with the crane so that the piece does not fall when it's cut. I make the cut as high as possible, just in case. This is tricky, because this means that the saw is shooting the chips right into my face. Safety glasses are critical, otherwise you get chips in your eyes and end up trying to get them out while the crane operator and your ground guys wait around. Once the cut is made, sometimes the crane operator needs to lift it a little more. It usually comes off in a very easy and controlled way, without much movement. The operator lifts it and drops it wherever we decided the brush would go. During this time I may or may not be repositioning myself, depending on how difficult that is to do. I often stay put so I can put the sling near my last cut. I also might stay there because the crane can get me to my next position much more easily than I can spike there. He brings the sling back, and we repeat till it's done. That's about it.

If you only have access to crane operators with no tree removal experience, I would reccomend putting them on a removal that is low-risk and easy to do. My first crane removal could have been done easily with ropes, but for my own sake I brought the crane in so that when I did really need a crane, I would be ready. Perhaps if one of the operators you know can get his feet wet on an easy removal where a mistake wouldn't be a disaster, he could approach a trickier removal with confidence. Or maybe not. Only you know if that would really work or not.

To answer your hardware question:
When I hire a crane, it's usually the largest size, which can lift many tons. We usually stay far on the safe side because of the dynamic nature of tree removal. We usually take out pieces under a ton, which can be quite large still. I have taken out 30 foot sections of spruce with a crane that were still under 1000 pounds. They provide the slings, which are rated for 20,000 pounds. I always use a girth hitch to attach the sling, since it's easy to do and the strongest possible method of attachment. I use my little Husky climbing saw to do most of the cutting, and use my regular harness, climbing line, lanyard, and spikes. Once you've done one, you'll see it's pretty simple for the climber. But that operator has got to know what he's doing! My two cents.

 

[rbtree]

max, Sounds like you're not hiring "largest size" cranes, not for $120/hr and picking tiny 1000 loads.....

Yesterday, we did a black locust with a 23 tonner, but close to 55-60 feet reach, so we were picking small loads, under 1500 lb. In the morning we picked 3 debris truck loads worth of lombardy poplar sticks, 2000-8000 lb each. The debris truck was able to pick the butts, which saved us some crane time. Total crane bill was $750...my guy is the best, only charges $50 travel and $100 per hr.

Look for a new thread with story and photos...when I get the time...bushed from the huge and stressful jobs.

We've picked 5 tons loads with the 23 ton truck mount a few times, just need to be close.

Have two log truck loads of big conifers to do soon, max reach 80 feet, will be picking up to 15000# at a time for the close in trees. To get better log grade, we need to pick up to 6000-8000 from the two far trees, so we'll o need an 80-120 ton crane with min. 145 feet of reach.

And I looked at two 115 foot poplars on a slope above a house, with a small landslide next to them...not unstable but need to go. Tough job but doable without a crane for the limbs (might need 200 feet of stick to reach the tops due to the slope..and a crane like that costs $2000 just to set up.) A 100 ton crane with 160 feet of stick should do the job if I top them first.

 

[Dadatwins]

Crane work is tricky, but can be very profitable and quick. Like the others have said the biggest part of a crane job is the crane operator. The other part is planning, you must have a plan from start to finish before starting any saws. Removing a tree with a crane is very different from rope rigging. Normal tree removal you would usually tie in at the top, set a lowering line and remove the bottom limbs working your way back UP the tree, cutting limbs to swing DOWN and away, crane removal is the opposite, you start removing the top and work your way DOWN, you want your picks to go UP and away. The hardest part of crane removal is judging the weight of each pick and making sure the picks do not twist after they are cut. The ideal pick will be in the same position after it is cut and hanging from the crane as it was attached to the tree. Another factor to consider is the drop zone, make sure it is large enough to accomidate the limbs coming down. Nothing worse than having a 1/2 tree hanging on a crane with no where to put it. Make sure your ground crew is prepared to move the debris as it comes down. The crane operator will usually not leave the operator chair while the boom is in the air, so have someone assigned to remove the slings on the ground and rehook them for the next pick. Watch out for pedestrians, nothing brings lots of curious people out of their houses faster for a closer look in your work zone than a 100' crane out in the street. good luck and be careful.

 

[jmack]

For what it's worth, I'll post my experiences with cranes. I rent cranes for about $120 an hour, 4 hour minimum. The operators they send out with the cranes have experience with tree removal. This is important; they tell me that doing tree work with cranes is much more difficult than any other kind of crane work. I can imagine why: you don't know the weight in advance, and you need to estimate how the material will move after being cut.

This is how we proceed: Once the operator arrives, we discuss the removal and work out a rough plan. He positions the crane wherever he thinks it's best (with my approval) and sets up the outriggers and extends the crane. I hook into the ball and ride up to the place on the tree where the first sling will be placed. I sling the branch onto the ball clip with a girth hitch, then lower myself down to the site of the first cut. The crane operator tells me where he wants the cut by signaling to either keep going down or stop and "cut right there." He applies tension with the crane so that the piece does not fall when it's cut. I make the cut as high as possible, just in case. This is tricky, because this means that the saw is shooting the chips right into my face. Safety glasses are critical, otherwise you get chips in your eyes and end up trying to get them out while the crane operator and your ground guys wait around. Once the cut is made, sometimes the crane operator needs to lift it a little more. It usually comes off in a very easy and controlled way, without much movement. The operator lifts it and drops it wherever we decided the brush would go. During this time I may or may not be repositioning myself, depending on how difficult that is to do. I often stay put so I can put the sling near my last cut. I also might stay there because the crane can get me to my next position much more easily than I can spike there. He brings the sling back, and we repeat till it's done. That's about it.

If you only have access to crane operators with no tree removal experience, I would reccomend putting them on a removal that is low-risk and easy to do. My first crane removal could have been done easily with ropes, but for my own sake I brought the crane in so that when I did really need a crane, I would be ready. Perhaps if one of the operators you know can get his feet wet on an easy removal where a mistake wouldn't be a disaster, he could approach a trickier removal with confidence. Or maybe not. Only you know if that would really work or not.

To answer your hardware question:
When I hire a crane, it's usually the largest size, which can lift many tons. We usually stay far on the safe side because of the dynamic nature of tree removal. We usually take out pieces under a ton, which can be quite large still. I have taken out 30 foot sections of spruce with a crane that were still under 1000 pounds. They provide the slings, which are rated for 20,000 pounds. I always use a girth hitch to attach the sling, since it's easy to do and the strongest possible method of attachment. I use my little Husky climbing saw to do most of the cutting, and use my regular harness, climbing line, lanyard, and spikes. Once you've done one, you'll see it's pretty simple for the climber. But that operator has got to know what he's doing! My two cents.

excellent post, I would say that if you are going to do crane work and you dont know eye protection is mandatory you might want to get yourself the zstandard i think there is crane stuff in there too.

 

[Rigger]

Hi Terry,

I have been Rigging Hazard Tree Removals for 42 years now, throughout the UK and Europe during the 70/80's and since then in California.
From helicopters to 80ton cranes, rigging over canyons and ravines, trees to trees etc.
It would be impractical as well as confuseing to try and teach anyone all there is to know with the written word. When operating with cranes many new factors come into play that general ropeing techniques don't have.
Most reputable crane operators are very skilled safe knowlegable workers you should work WITH them they know their limitations and the capabilities of the equipment. However you as a tree operator you should be familiar with your end of the stick.

Load and Reach are big factors to consider, also bear in mind tension is applied to a FIXED load one minuet then suddenly it's a free load the next.
A good operation is determined by minimal movement once the load is cut free, Whole trees can be rigged and cut at ground level with the tree riseing only three or four inches when cut.

I think the Best info I can give you is to make sure that it IS feasable, MAKE SURE OF: access and room (out riggers etc.), weight limits, reach and load are workable, boom clearance for the operation etc.

A smooth operation is a treat to watch but you gotta do your homework, by the way I read in an earlier post that they ride the hook up, OK....
why not we have all done it and it sure beats the hell out of climbing up, just make sure OSHA ain't in the audience.

All the best

 

[xtremetrees]

I agree with riding the hook up only technique, from there climber should be on his own.

 

[diltree]

Crane Work

I would be crazy to attempt to instruct you on the many aspects of crane work via written posts. If Its possible try to hook up with a company that has experience working with cranes or hire a climber that has experience, and learn first hand. Its just to dangerous to jump into without some kind of mentor to guide you; Thats my feeling on the subject and we have been doing crane work for a long time. We have some pictures of our crews using our cranes posted on our web site if you want to take a look some jobs done with a crane

www.dillontree.com

 

[CraneOp1]

I agree with diltree. However, I would be willing to come to Ft. Wayne with a very good crane climber on a Saturday. You supply the crane and ground crew. We both work for a large private tree co. 3 cranes, 4 buckets, 2 manual trucks and prentice loader. Will do this as for hire, there will be no conflict of interest, as we are out of yours and our business areas and state.
If this sounds of interest to you please feel free to e-mail me at

[email protected]

 

[diltree]

Good Offer

Thats a great offer, Definitely the way to go....a small investment to learn how to work safely with a crane

 

[wildbill]

Riggers perspective

Glad to see a thread already started. I come from a riggers background, steel, salvage, etc. And having done tree work on and off for 20 years and with all the hurricane damage here on the Coast I have gone full time. I approach tree work as I would other rigging jobs. I use a Snorkel TB-80 4x4 telescoping boom lift drivable at full 86ft extension, the 6ft articulated jib is a super option. I find it is a safer platform and more versatile than a bucket truck. The AC on the platform lets me use Sthil electric saws on the light stuff, wet kit for hydraulic saws is an option as well. I position a crane near me with a half dozen or so webb slings with locking steel carabiniere's for fast hook up and removal (several wraps) for topping out and flying several branches at a time. 20ton slings for the trunk work. This technique requires no climbing and is perfect for trees that are leaner‘s, on houses, etc. Each situation can be different and not recommended for someone that doesn’t have a knack for it. For all the things I have rigged trees are the most unpredictable. I highly recommend a riggers handbook with all the formula’s, ratings and configurations. I do Not recommend a crane as a personnel lift, seen to many failures.. I see they advertise spiderlifts on this site, I prefer free rolling boom lifts, “up and over” semi-articulated are versatile while I found knuckle booms restrict swing in tight quarters and have limited horizontal reach (71ft below level on mine). Telescoping booms you just pick a hole and shoot. I ALWAYS wear a heavy duty harness with retractable fall arresters and inline decelerator. And just because your crane operator has been doing that for many years does not mean he knows what he is doing. Always think three moves ahead..

 

[diltree]

A few recent pictures

I thought a couple of pictures would tell a good story....it only let me download five; but oh well

www.dillontree.com

 

[diltree]

more pics

a couple more pics, from today


www.dillontree.com

 

[BoesTreeService]

More specifics on my needs

I am going to be removing a large Oak that is busting up a basement with its roots. There is room to operate a bucket and a crane. The need for the crane is several limbs, between 20 and 40 feet in height at the trunk, that are almost completely horizontal, and start at 20" in diameter, growing right out over the house. It seems to me that craning these out would be faster and more efficient than lowering them manually in tiny pieces.

My question is how is it best to rig heavy horizontal limbs - do you cut from the bottom and raise them? How do you determine the midpoint for balance of the limb, do you use cable slings? When I do my lowering rigging, I use webbing loops girth hitched and steel carabiners. If there is a need, i will notch the branch to keep the girth hitch from sliding (although they rarely do its worth the time to do so)

 

[Dadatwins]

I am going to be removing a large Oak that is busting up a basement with its roots. There is room to operate a bucket and a crane. The need for the crane is several limbs, between 20 and 40 feet in height at the trunk, that are almost completely horizontal, and start at 20" in diameter, growing right out over the house. It seems to me that craning these out would be faster and more efficient than lowering them manually in tiny pieces.

My question is how is it best to rig heavy horizontal limbs - do you cut from the bottom and raise them? How do you determine the midpoint for balance of the limb, do you use cable slings? When I do my lowering rigging, I use webbing loops girth hitched and steel carabiners. If there is a need, i will notch the branch to keep the girth hitch from sliding (although they rarely do its worth the time to do so)

It would be impossible and foolish for anyone to instruct you how to specificly crane remove a tree over an online forum. As a general rule balance pieces can be made with multiple slings, the less movement the piece makes after cutting the better. As for cutting from the bottom it depends, most times after the crane takes up the slack, I will make a snap cut (part top and bottom)and move out of the way and let the crane lift the peice, again the less movement the better.
You sound pretty set on doing this job, a suggestion was made earlier from someone willing to come and do a crane job for you as a sub. Might be a good idea to watch one done to get the feel for it before getting into a possible bad situation. Crane can make the job very easy, but like I said in an earlier post crane removal is the reverse of typical rope removal and can get a climber confused. Good luck and be careful.

 

[CraneOp1]

Terry my offer still stands. As my Dad always said, "A fool and his money always part". To under take a job like this is to flirt with disaster. If these limbs are cut wrong or picked wrong or even rigged wrong you could be looking at replacing a roof. There is allot more to it the just finding a midpoint for balance, or to make it butt heavy. This is where you need a good tree crane operator and a good crane climber. Not everyone up to this type of work even standing in a bucket, even those who think they can, but haven't find out real fast. This is something I have been trained to do, I can work both ends of the stick. And if you decide to try this on your own call your insurance man and make sure your covered for this type of tree work, so if things go south at least your not stuck holding the bag.:deadhorse:

 

[rbtree]

Terry, take CraneOp up on his offer. He and others are right, you need to learn the ins and out of crane work, and have an operator experienced at tree work. Craning big horizontal limbs is delicate, and needs to be done right!

Here's pics and videos from our recent big job.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13705992@N00/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5150282134833883648&pl=true

 

[diltree]

I'm with RB.....CraneOps offer is a great opportunity, Crane work is just as serious as working around Power lines, they are aspects of the business that need to be taken seriously, were education and apprenticeship is required before attempting a Job. To have someone experienced train you is the only way to go in this situation. I would never want to see a fellow arborist site member place them selves in danger......

www.dillontree.com

 

[jmack]

I am going to be removing a large Oak that is busting up a basement with its roots. There is room to operate a bucket and a crane. The need for the crane is several limbs, between 20 and 40 feet in height at the trunk, that are almost completely horizontal, and start at 20" in diameter, growing right out over the house. It seems to me that craning these out would be faster and more efficient than lowering them manually in tiny pieces.

My question is how is it best to rig heavy horizontal limbs - do you cut from the bottom and raise them? How do you determine the midpoint for balance of the limb, do you use cable slings? When I do my lowering rigging, I use webbing loops girth hitched and steel carabiners. If there is a need, i will notch the branch to keep the girth hitch from sliding (although they rarely do its worth the time to do so)

hey maybe you can ask the crane co. whos been renting from them and see if you can watch or get the crane climber to come in for a day