Crown reduction or topping
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A crown reduction is taking tips back to the next branch union. Or removing leaders all the way back to reduce height. Where as, Topping is simply cutting off branches at any point to accomplish the same effect ie height reduction. Crown reduction takes knowledge and skill where as topping can be done by any novice.
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Topping is an indiscriminate cut, usually leaving no foliage above that point.
Crown reduction is the lesser of two evils. The cuts are still on the wrong side of the compartmentalization barrier, but if the tree is trimmed properly, where a lateral at least 1/3 the size remains above the crown reduction cut, at least it still has foliage.
Several smaller crown reduction cuts are much better for the tree than one or two big ones.
Crown reduction is the lesser of two evils. The cuts are still on the wrong side of the compartmentalization barrier, but if the tree is trimmed properly, where a lateral at least 1/3 the size remains above the crown reduction cut, at least it still has foliage.
Several smaller crown reduction cuts are much better for the tree than one or two big ones.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
I don't like them I just did a drastic one to try to preserve two dying
oaks! They had server crown die back due to compaction and turf issues
I did not have suitable laterals until way down but many green smaller
laterals so tried my best and left all the green possible. It is a last ditch
effort to save these trees but I admit looks poor to me and I would rather
remove them and plant new trees. Sometimes crown reductions can be great looking and have beneficial affects to looks but laterals dictate this outcome!I would have reduced these trees by two thirds to get correct laterals and stress would most assuredly killed them! Anyone have any like these,how did they fair? I lightly mulched the root zone to help with compaction!
oaks! They had server crown die back due to compaction and turf issues
I did not have suitable laterals until way down but many green smaller
laterals so tried my best and left all the green possible. It is a last ditch
effort to save these trees but I admit looks poor to me and I would rather
remove them and plant new trees. Sometimes crown reductions can be great looking and have beneficial affects to looks but laterals dictate this outcome!I would have reduced these trees by two thirds to get correct laterals and stress would most assuredly killed them! Anyone have any like these,how did they fair? I lightly mulched the root zone to help with compaction!
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
If they are in such drastic need of reduction that topping is being considered, it's probably better to remove them.
If topping is the decision it should be done leaving a whorl of branches directly below the cut so one can assume the role of the new central leader.
Spiral pruning is a better option to reduce the windsail and potential ice loading, and still leave the tree in it's natural form.
One or two laterals pruned off each whorl in a spiral pattern up the tree can remove as much foliage as taking the top off.
I'm generally talking about residential work, I understand that windfirming in the bush is a different creature.
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ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Yeah, told them that but they wanted to try to save them first,
the White Oak may make it, the water oak doubtful it has other issues
so next season, I will be removing it most likely and dead wooding the
white oak again, maybe it will have grown out enough to lightly shape by select pruning!
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ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ooops, sorry Rope,
I was referring to Clearance's question about what to do about topping on a conifer.
I'm sure you left the oaks in as good of shape as they could be. I've had a non stop stream of jobs where I can't leave the tree looking as I'd like, since two consecutive years of huge ice storms. Massive breakage all over. Some look much like a hack job, except the good limbs are still in place.
We can only do the best we can with what we've got to work with. Getting to work on ideal trees is a rare occurence.
I was referring to Clearance's question about what to do about topping on a conifer.
I'm sure you left the oaks in as good of shape as they could be. I've had a non stop stream of jobs where I can't leave the tree looking as I'd like, since two consecutive years of huge ice storms. Massive breakage all over. Some look much like a hack job, except the good limbs are still in place.
We can only do the best we can with what we've got to work with. Getting to work on ideal trees is a rare occurence.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Man I hear that,I did not come to your state but the poor chaps in Oklahoma man; I don't see how those trees will ever recover. I guess it would be wrong to dispose of that many trees so great care would have to be enacted to preserve the resources left! We had a bad Ice storm in 2000 many trees died and many others look bad still! Like this tornado ice storm thing is getting pretty bad I feel for all affected. I think they should start planting lots of trees in these hard hit areas fast!
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Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Oh good, as long as I call it "crown reduction" I will be ok. (sarcasm) Thanks guys.
The general rule that determines the difference between a topping and reduction cut is the 1/3 rule.
That, is if the cut made is to a lateral that is 1/3 the diameter, it is considered crown reduction. That lateral can then assume the terminal role.
In the case of a conifer, it could loosely be assumed that if the total area of the branches below the whorl are 1/3 that of the top cut, the cut could be called reduction. In my experience, a topped conifer will contain its decay relatively well if the top cut is small...given that the tree is healthy. In my area, doug fir and cedar do allright, hemlock not as good.
That said, 99 times out of 100, I recommend thinning, or branch reduction and lightening, or nothing at all. If a conifer is only thinned by 15%, its wind resistance and chances of failing won't be helped that much, as studies have confirmed. However, reducing the tree's profile, as in end weight reduction, along with some thinning, (more up high, less down low) can be beneficial.
That, is if the cut made is to a lateral that is 1/3 the diameter, it is considered crown reduction. That lateral can then assume the terminal role.
In the case of a conifer, it could loosely be assumed that if the total area of the branches below the whorl are 1/3 that of the top cut, the cut could be called reduction. In my experience, a topped conifer will contain its decay relatively well if the top cut is small...given that the tree is healthy. In my area, doug fir and cedar do allright, hemlock not as good.
That said, 99 times out of 100, I recommend thinning, or branch reduction and lightening, or nothing at all. If a conifer is only thinned by 15%, its wind resistance and chances of failing won't be helped that much, as studies have confirmed. However, reducing the tree's profile, as in end weight reduction, along with some thinning, (more up high, less down low) can be beneficial.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Which means you can cut to the middle of a stem if there is the bulge of a bud node below the cut.
Go back to the work Guy M. did with several articles on storm work
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
So really, not much diff. When I top trees, which I do often, as its top 'em or saw them down before they grow into or close to the powerline. I try to be nice, and do it as has been described. So I guess I can say I am not topping, I am crown reducing, sounds a bit dishonest, something a politician would say.
ClimbinArbor
ArboristSite Guru
not to be mean...... but its topping Clearance. most of the utility guys have gone to removing the whole limb, which leaves half a tree in most cases..... I know we work with what we've got when it comes to utility work and storm damage, but we have got to come up with something better for utility work. the underground lines are helping, but not fast enough.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
I have already said the solution many times but here goes again,
planting practices is what causes the problem. Only small maturing
trees 25 foot of centerline of right of way, then the larger ones can
be managed with better looks. Don't even think for one minute it
is a line trimmer problem he did not plant a tulip tree 6 foot away
from the line!
Oh and almost forgot underground lines help not really
they just kill the tree instead of trim you end up removing.
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clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Rope speaks the truth, yet again.
sperho
ArboristSite Operative
Do they kill because of the trenching involved or something that is less obvious?
ClimbinArbor
ArboristSite Guru
oh i allready know. homeowner knowledge, or the lack thereof, is the bain of my existence lol. as im sure its the same way for yall.
yeah man, construction is haill on trees. everything from a cut trunk to cut roots. even compaction and construction clearance
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Yeah many times the trenching damages the root systems and
causes a delayed death, sometimes two years, sometimes two months!
ClimbinArbor
ArboristSite Guru
hey saddle what is the timeline for storm damaged tree death, unrepaired? say 25% 50% and 75% damage.
